Views from the Sieve

Is it wrong that in the Man City v Barcelona match last night only 2 of the Man City side were English ?

Imo It's down to the coaching at youth level not being good enough in this country. Potential good young players will continually be overlooked by big clubs as there coaches have only managed to go so far with their development and they then drift down the leagues in order to ply their trade. It's not good for our national team and as a result it's why we are so poor at major tounaments.
No I don't think it's right, but until we resolve the issues at a young age, what you saw last night will only get worse. Fans don't really care where a player comes from so long as he's good enough, but the bonds between homegrown talent and supporters is fading in to obscurity.
Having said that if man city don't want any of there players, I dare say we could find room for them in our team :)

Actually its down to the top managers not risking the academy players in "competitive" football.

At most top clubs they can sign some unknown international from Slovenia or Ghana and shove him straight in the team and no one seems to moan if they take a few games to get up to speed. Shove in a 19/20 year old kid out of the academy in and if he struggles early he's "not good enough" and probably never seen again.

Trouble here is work permits being issued willy-nilly to all sorts of imports who shouldn't really qualify to play in England, and the managers under pressure to get results immediately and actually in the main don't give a toss about "England".

Look at Southampton and Spurs where a few academy players have been given a go and done great. At City, Micah Richards has to head off to Italy to get a game. Chelsea seem to have a loanee at every club in Europe, but how many of them ever get near a shot at the first team? At Arsenal, the academy players that have been though the system since age 9 see a 17 year old Polish kid bought in over the top of them.

Mike the Dagger wrote:Actually its down to the top managers not risking the academy players in "competitive" football.

At most top clubs they can sign some unknown international from Slovenia or Ghana and shove him straight in the team and no one seems to moan if they take a few games to get up to speed. Shove in a 19/20 year old kid out of the academy in and if he struggles early he's "not good enough" and probably never seen again.

Trouble here is work permits being issued willy-nilly to all sorts of imports who shouldn't really qualify to play in England, and the managers under pressure to get results immediately and actually in the main don't give a toss about "England".

Look at Southampton and Spurs where a few academy players have been given a go and done great. At City, Micah Richards has to head off to Italy to get a game. Chelsea seem to have a loanee at every club in Europe, but how many of them ever get near a shot at the first team? At Arsenal, the academy players that have been though the system since age 9 see a 17 year old Polish kid bought in over the top of them.

Agree completely with this
I think it's one of the reasons Big Sam isn't popular with some West Ham fans
'The Academy' thing was definitely overdone but no young players seem to get a chance there now
Dan Potts came in at 17 in an emergency. The fans loved him but he was bombed out a few weeks later after one poor game
Perhaps the tide is starting to turn though
Spurs hadn't brought any kids through for years until Tim Sherwood got the opportunity to step up from running the youth team so knew that some of his boys were ready

Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

dagger4eva wrote:Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

Isn't the thread about Foreign players?

dagger4eva wrote:Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

Actually Ian Gayle played well in the Development game v Welling yesterday so maybe will be back in the fold shortly
We've only had a full Academy for 4 or 5 years but from what I've seen over the past 2 seasons we'll start to see some of the boys making it through to the first team in the next 12 months or so

matt_drfc wrote:

dagger4eva wrote:Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

Isn't the thread about Foreign players?

At our level its done with loanees rather than the Democratic Republic of Congo left back.

In my opinion, a big factor to this is the fact our National Team and Top Division are run by different organisations. Take Spain, Germany and The Netherlands. La Liga, Bundesliga and Eredivisie are run by the Football Association of their respective countries. The Premier League is a business, clubs run as a business and it's all about results to stay there, Managers need results to keep their jobs, they need the best players, often coming from the likes of Spain, Germany, Netherlands and they have no time to bring through the young English players. But it won't be changing anytime soon.

Mike the Dagger wrote:

matt_drfc wrote:

dagger4eva wrote:Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

Isn't the thread about Foreign players?

At our level its done with loanees rather than the Democratic Republic of Congo left back.

The loanees we get are often British, so we are aiding their development, instead of them sitting in the Premier League clubs reserves.

Mike the Dagger wrote:

matt_drfc wrote:

dagger4eva wrote:Aren't we just as guilty of this too ??

Ok, we arent / havent been down the cheap foreign route but we - particularly the last 2 or so years have seemed much more willing to give the young player of a Premier League / Championship club an instant opportunity in our 1st team than one of our own, equally young and equally (in)experienced academy players?

Take Ian Gayle as an example. He was actually given an opportunity - albeit I think only down to the injury crisis we had at the time. Was doing no worse than other members of the team at the time. One mistake and he gets absolutely bombed out without a second's glance!
Could you see that happening to some Mr Chumney Warner on loan to us from West Ham or Spurs ??

Isn't the thread about Foreign players?

At our level its done with loanees rather than the Democratic Republic of Congo left back.

Yes - exactly my point!

matt_drfc wrote:

Mike the Dagger wrote:

matt_drfc wrote:
Isn't the thread about Foreign players?

At our level its done with loanees rather than the Democratic Republic of Congo left back.

The loanees we get are often British, so we are aiding their development, instead of them sitting in the Premier League clubs reserves.

But we don't develo0p or progress enough of our own. These players get their experience playing for us, then either fade away or get a contract elsewhere based on how well they did/ See Norris and D'Ath as recent examples. The number of times we get a real gem, like Matt Ritchie or Ayo through this route is massively offset by the fact that our own kids don't get a shot to show what they can do.

Mike the Dagger wrote: But we don't develo0p or progress enough of our own. These players get their experience playing for us, then either fade away or get a contract elsewhere based on how well they did/ See Norris and D'Ath as recent examples. The number of times we get a real gem, like Matt Ritchie or Ayo through this route is massively offset by the fact that our own kids don't get a shot to show what they can do.

This ^^^

Over the last couple of seasons we've had what feels like countless loan players that have not really improved our team yet they've played regularly, while our own youngsters haven't got a go.

Slightly off subject, but I would like to see young jodi jones getting more playing time, I think he's got great potential.

stanton101 wrote:Slightly off subject, but I would like to see young jodi jones getting more playing time, I think he's got great potential.

He's been playing in all the development games to get experience playing against men's teams
The game yesterday was definitely a big learning experience where he had to put up with heavy tackles and physical & verbal intimidation
Of course this is the best way for a young player to learn and he kept trying to get on the ball & create things even so
The management team seem to be doing the right thing by bringing him through gradually and blooding him in these behind the scenes games ahead of giving him his chance