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You do realise...
...that Englands poor showing in Brazil will pretty much result in Greg Dykes ridiculous B-team idea getting implemented.For what its worth I didn't think we actually played too badly in either game,but obviously results are all that matter.Cant see who should have played who didn't,the only one mentioned most is Ashley Cole but how he'd have stopped Steven gerrard nausing it all up I don't know.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
That idea of his is great if you want youth players for big clubs to get consistent games rather than just getting released and signing for teams like ours anyway. Problem is that won't magically give us a world class player. You can train for skill and tactics and teamwork but sheer world class talent? To be Messi, Ronaldo or even the biter in chief himself Suarez is just natural from birth and no B team would ever change that.
We need to realise we don't have that and stop fartarsing about referring to every half decent striker/midfielder as England's talisman. We don't have a talismans, we have scapegoats, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Gerard (every ref ever) there's always someone to blame. Its about time we changed our whole attitude. No stupid idea is going to create a miracle super team. England expects? England needs to expect nothing. This year we didn't play badly but we were substandard everywhere, poor defending poor creation and poor finishing.
I could almost excuse Joe hart if he hadt done that stupid matrix dive backwards out of the way of the ball for Uruguay's second goal. So less shampoo commercials for him and more training please.
We need to realise we don't have that and stop fartarsing about referring to every half decent striker/midfielder as England's talisman. We don't have a talismans, we have scapegoats, Beckham, Owen, Rooney, Gerard (every ref ever) there's always someone to blame. Its about time we changed our whole attitude. No stupid idea is going to create a miracle super team. England expects? England needs to expect nothing. This year we didn't play badly but we were substandard everywhere, poor defending poor creation and poor finishing.
I could almost excuse Joe hart if he hadt done that stupid matrix dive backwards out of the way of the ball for Uruguay's second goal. So less shampoo commercials for him and more training please.
Sorry about your damn luck!
The blame lies solely with the FA an the PL. The PL is not the best league in the world. Its a league played in England for some of the highest paid players. Since its inception, England have gone downhill after a pretty decent performance at the WC in Italy in 1990. 4 English clubs have won the Champions League in 20 odd years, whereas old big ears came to these shores 5 times in 8 seasons during the 80's.
I accept its great to have seen the likes of Zola, Gullit, Suarez, Cantona etc playing in our league, but it's the countless other foreign players that are harming our game. I don't agree that if your good enough you will be discovered. It's about being given an opportunity which is why overseas players develop much younger and quicker. All of the European leagues are dominated mostly by home grown players. Can you believe for a minute that even the reserve sides have many foreign players like the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal do? I'm a big fan of German football and how their system both on and off the pitch consistently produces talented players and successful sides. Will be learn from them? Oh no sir, we're British.
After every tournament, there's a post mortem, blaming systems, players, managers etc but come August, the media circus will have us forget about the previous summer's failing and carry on as normal.
I accept its great to have seen the likes of Zola, Gullit, Suarez, Cantona etc playing in our league, but it's the countless other foreign players that are harming our game. I don't agree that if your good enough you will be discovered. It's about being given an opportunity which is why overseas players develop much younger and quicker. All of the European leagues are dominated mostly by home grown players. Can you believe for a minute that even the reserve sides have many foreign players like the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal do? I'm a big fan of German football and how their system both on and off the pitch consistently produces talented players and successful sides. Will be learn from them? Oh no sir, we're British.
After every tournament, there's a post mortem, blaming systems, players, managers etc but come August, the media circus will have us forget about the previous summer's failing and carry on as normal.
Sometimes after all the who/ha of our national side getting ready for another dig at a major European/World stage tournament I sit back now and kick me self at why I fall in a trap thinking that our boys 'have a slight ability of doing something positive for a change'. All these problems have developed and stagnated for years, and rightly so 1990 with dear old Bobby Robson was the last and only pinnacle of hope since '66, full stop! Wasting years the English FA and gosh knows how many millions on Capello, then with spot the English coach/es in our top leagues?, where they really ONLY had Hodgson as 'a English and wanted option', Harry had lost it! Then as normal a hard and many matches per season with domestic, Europe and 'pointless International friendlies', ie a completely knackered side setting out for 'stardom in South America', True,it was a slight delight to see some youngsters setting their pace on the world stage but it should have been done years back and thus just about now we would have most probably benefited. Can't ever see us doing well again unless some stringent changes quite rapidly, too many to mention now but should imagine most fellow daggers know what they are, and don't think the players show the passion to wear the shirt like those South Americans! Costa Rica? Maybe a fight with Spain for the wooden spoon!
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Ilford Dagger
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:59 pm
In a few weeks the PL will return & most fans will have forgotten about the World Cup fiasco & won't be bothered about England very much as their Clubs matter to them so much more. There will be a lot of talk, opinions ventured, solutions offered etc none of which however sensible & well intentioned will be acted upon properly, meanwhile players in the PL will get even more bloated salaries, admission prices & ST prices will continue to rise & little will change.
For the National team the outlook isn't very promising as it will take years maybe at least a generation to change how we play as well as Coaches coming in who can get us playing the right way consistently (Brendan Rodgers is probably the closest to this along with Roberto Martinez). If you look at the WC we have been exposed defensively with full backs who are great attacking but inadequate when defending (I am a huge fan of Leighton Baines but he has been found wanting defensively), our centre backs have also been suspect yet both would have played better if they had been in their Club teams, sadly Gerrard looks a little burned out & may well just concentrate on his Club career from now on - he has been a great servant & deserves much praise for his contribution to England but this was a tournament too many. Although the forwards show potential Rooney won't improve & Sturridge needs to improve so much more particularly with his shooting, all round awareness & teamwork, Sterling shows much promise but needs to be handled well (cue Brendan Rodgers again), additionally Lallana & Barkley need more games for England as well.
We can forget doing well in Tournaments for a while as we are always found out by top sides & class players.
For the National team the outlook isn't very promising as it will take years maybe at least a generation to change how we play as well as Coaches coming in who can get us playing the right way consistently (Brendan Rodgers is probably the closest to this along with Roberto Martinez). If you look at the WC we have been exposed defensively with full backs who are great attacking but inadequate when defending (I am a huge fan of Leighton Baines but he has been found wanting defensively), our centre backs have also been suspect yet both would have played better if they had been in their Club teams, sadly Gerrard looks a little burned out & may well just concentrate on his Club career from now on - he has been a great servant & deserves much praise for his contribution to England but this was a tournament too many. Although the forwards show potential Rooney won't improve & Sturridge needs to improve so much more particularly with his shooting, all round awareness & teamwork, Sterling shows much promise but needs to be handled well (cue Brendan Rodgers again), additionally Lallana & Barkley need more games for England as well.
We can forget doing well in Tournaments for a while as we are always found out by top sides & class players.
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Masked Man
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:45 pm
B Teams won't work, as that will mean players just playing at L1/Championship level.
For the English National team to improve, we need more player to choose from playing at the highest level.
That means 8 out of 10 players for Premiership clubs being English. Giving a much larger pool of players with Champions League experience to choose our National Team from.
Not hard is it? :shock:
For the English National team to improve, we need more player to choose from playing at the highest level.
That means 8 out of 10 players for Premiership clubs being English. Giving a much larger pool of players with Champions League experience to choose our National Team from.
Not hard is it? :shock:
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SUSSEX DAGGER
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am
We will always find an excuse .
There are plenty of myths in football one of the biggest was Bobby Robson
He managed us at 86 and 90 World Cups and Euro 88 inbetween. At those gigs he managed to win 3 games out of 14 in regulation time and lost 6 . If they had kept the format of the 78 and 82 World Cup England would have been nowhere near 4th place At Italia 90.
If he had been managing the Daggers Vindelot would have had a fit if he was knighted for results.
There was no Premier League to hide behind then.
.
Nor was there in 74 and 78 when we did not even make the gig. In 82 we only made it by the skin of ou7r teeth after one of the minnows did us a favour by beating Romania, most had given it ip as a lost cause.
There has been the occasional hyped up showing. Euro 96 we won two games on route to semi and if the jock had sunk the penalty would we have beaten the scots ?
We have completely lost our way for four decades at international level and a couple of freak tournamounts were it was more about not losing then winning have been the only bright bulbs on a very dull xmas tree
There are plenty of myths in football one of the biggest was Bobby Robson
He managed us at 86 and 90 World Cups and Euro 88 inbetween. At those gigs he managed to win 3 games out of 14 in regulation time and lost 6 . If they had kept the format of the 78 and 82 World Cup England would have been nowhere near 4th place At Italia 90.
If he had been managing the Daggers Vindelot would have had a fit if he was knighted for results.
There was no Premier League to hide behind then.
.
Nor was there in 74 and 78 when we did not even make the gig. In 82 we only made it by the skin of ou7r teeth after one of the minnows did us a favour by beating Romania, most had given it ip as a lost cause.
There has been the occasional hyped up showing. Euro 96 we won two games on route to semi and if the jock had sunk the penalty would we have beaten the scots ?
We have completely lost our way for four decades at international level and a couple of freak tournamounts were it was more about not losing then winning have been the only bright bulbs on a very dull xmas tree
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Ilford Dagger
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:59 pm
I believe some are touting for Venables to be made England coach again - No Thank You!! He has some good ideas but his career record isn't that great & with all the advantages in Euro '96 still couldn't win the Tournament, to be fair we were superb v Holland, but to balance that were poor v Switzerland, lucky to beat the Scots thanks only to a wonder goal by Gazza & fluked a penalties win v Spain who actually had a perfectly good goal disallowed for offside in the 90 minutes. His club record apart from winning La Liga with Barca is also questionable, 1 FA Cup win with Spurs & relegation with Palace (once or twice?) plus he always seemed to have an obsession with offside.
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Dagger In The Heart
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:48 pm
Clearly we need more English talents strutting their stuff in the PL and it's utterly shameful the figures on home grown talent in the PL, but I reckon we need some playing in foreign leagues to experience their styles of play. I'm convinced this helps them when they play against England.
What I don't understand is, in my lifetime, how we always fail to deliver. There must be a mindset problem or something as, for example, Peter Odemwingie of West Brom or whichever mediocre PL team he plays for now, seems to be capable of performing on the big stage.
The laughable B teams idea just won't work. How will playing against Conference players, who'll kick them off the park, possibly improve young players. Aside from the fact they'll be packed with as many foreigners as PL clubs can get away with, if this is the plan for international talent then the national team might as well be full of Conference players.
I agree with all the above though, come the start of next season all will be forgotten for fickle PL clubs, fans and most of the media. Reading the transfer gossip column on the BBC you'd think there was no problem, with PL clubs plotting which big name foreigner to waste millions of wonga on next. It pains me......
What I don't understand is, in my lifetime, how we always fail to deliver. There must be a mindset problem or something as, for example, Peter Odemwingie of West Brom or whichever mediocre PL team he plays for now, seems to be capable of performing on the big stage.
The laughable B teams idea just won't work. How will playing against Conference players, who'll kick them off the park, possibly improve young players. Aside from the fact they'll be packed with as many foreigners as PL clubs can get away with, if this is the plan for international talent then the national team might as well be full of Conference players.
I agree with all the above though, come the start of next season all will be forgotten for fickle PL clubs, fans and most of the media. Reading the transfer gossip column on the BBC you'd think there was no problem, with PL clubs plotting which big name foreigner to waste millions of wonga on next. It pains me......
Last edited by Dagger In The Heart on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ThatRoundThing
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:40 am
Here are a few questions to throw into the debate.
Despite Hodgson's vote of confidence should Hodgson's stay.
Who would we replace him with, English Premiership managers are a dying breed.
Should we be thinking about a foreign manager/coach once again?
Who could be regarded as English managers for the distant future given their records so far and assuming they will improve further. I'll throw in Steve Bruce, Nigel Pearson and Sean Dyche.
Or... Are our top English players so far behind the Rest of The World that no manager would be able to improve our current crop of young players coming through the ranks.
Let the debate begin....
Despite Hodgson's vote of confidence should Hodgson's stay.
Who would we replace him with, English Premiership managers are a dying breed.
Should we be thinking about a foreign manager/coach once again?
Who could be regarded as English managers for the distant future given their records so far and assuming they will improve further. I'll throw in Steve Bruce, Nigel Pearson and Sean Dyche.
Or... Are our top English players so far behind the Rest of The World that no manager would be able to improve our current crop of young players coming through the ranks.
Let the debate begin....
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SUSSEX DAGGER
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am
Need a young Manager. Anybody who played when there was a lace in the ball should immediately be excluded.
Squad should contain 75% of players that can play both at full and under 21 levels.
Only play competitive games at both levels.
Do like we do with the Cricket Team put the Youngsters on Central Contracts and the appointed Manager can loan them out to where they will get games and not how to sit in the stands or bench.
Squad should contain 75% of players that can play both at full and under 21 levels.
Only play competitive games at both levels.
Do like we do with the Cricket Team put the Youngsters on Central Contracts and the appointed Manager can loan them out to where they will get games and not how to sit in the stands or bench.
I know he was never an international himself, but I would love to see someone come in with half the passion that a manager like Sean Dyche has... also great at pulling his younger players through (clearly over achieving with the squad he has)
The manager has to go for me simply because of the reliance on Gerrard and Rooney... if, as rumoured, he is trying to get Gerrard to stay on then certainly not thinking the same way as much of the public
The manager has to go for me simply because of the reliance on Gerrard and Rooney... if, as rumoured, he is trying to get Gerrard to stay on then certainly not thinking the same way as much of the public
Interesting to see how Sean Dyche and Nigel Pearson do in Premier league next season, if they set their teams alight on top stage good chance they'd be on the move to 'money bag clubs', which would be a real sorry state for respective supporters. Well impressed watching the clarets v Reading after our game up in Accrington last September, Danny Ings superb and how he is not at 21 odd rolling it on for England beats me, finds the net nearly every other week. Gerrard at one time was the closest we had to a Pirlo, if Roy stays on a long term we need to find someone like him to centre on, I feel our top League has destroyed our mentality state for International duty for so many years now that playing for England is a chore with no passion and we do need someone who has run the team from lower levels like these two mentioned to bring the hunger back.