Views from the Sieve

I know it`s not dagger related but thought it important enough to post here ,finally justice is been done for 96 deaths in the Hillsborough disaster in 1989

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england/merseyside

Justice can't happen until the trial is held and a verdict returned.

So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

Diggerthedog wrote:So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

Someone still repeating the myths which were disproved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-35473732

I'm pleased to see the prosecutions being brought and would like to remind anyone posting in this thread that they need to be mindful of not prejudicing the trial.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... s-13250526

Still not daggers related....

Diggerthedog wrote:So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

I happen to know someone who was in that pen that had the crush and he had officers afterwards changing parts of his statement.

That was not an accident. That was deliberately covering up the truth.

It's a shame people like you still fall for the things that have been disproved at the recent inquests.

Diggerthedog wrote:So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

Let us not deprive the accused of their right to a fair trial - we wouldn't want further anguish suffered by the people in Liverpool by these men avoiding paying for any alleged crime purely on the basis that they can claim they won't have had a fair trial.

But when it's over, no matter what the verdict, I, and I am sure others, will have a great deal to say.

WE WANT THE TRUTH. Nothing more, nothing less. And with THE TRUTH will come justice for all concerned I'm sure.

To everybody; please don't afford anybody a means of escape from scrutiny. Just a little longer and then it will be time to have a serious discussion.

The Romford Dagger wrote:

Diggerthedog wrote:So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

I happen to know someone who was in that pen that had the crush and he had officers afterwards changing parts of his statement.

That was not an accident. That was deliberately covering up the truth.

It's a shame people like you still fall for the things that have been disproved at the recent inquests.

The police actions were wrong in changing statements and the deserve repercussions on falsify statements but the whole incident was an accident. Manslaughter can't be pinned to a handful of people when there were actions of thousands that led the the deaths of these poor people.

The inquest was a load of bollocks just look at the Iraq war inquest another load of bollocks. Inquests are just that and nothing to do with the law. The findings mean nothing and at times can be biased, this can be said for all inquests.

I'll leave it here on this one, let's see what happens in he ludicrous trial.

Diggerthedog wrote:

The Romford Dagger wrote:

Diggerthedog wrote:So no punishment for the thousands of Liverpool fans that turn up ticketless or with known fake tickets?

How all the blame can be put to a handful of people is crazy. It was a whole catalogue of errors from all parties. It was an accident pure and simple. But I guess if you campaign long enough someone will KOP it.

The recent fire will be the same scenario.

I happen to know someone who was in that pen that had the crush and he had officers afterwards changing parts of his statement.

That was not an accident. That was deliberately covering up the truth.

It's a shame people like you still fall for the things that have been disproved at the recent inquests.

The police actions were wrong in changing statements and the deserve repercussions on falsify statements but the whole incident was an accident. Manslaughter can't be pinned to a handful of people when there were actions of thousands that led the the deaths of these poor people.

The inquest was a load of bollocks just look at the Iraq war inquest another load of bollocks. Inquests are just that and nothing to do with the law. The findings mean nothing and at times can be biased, this can be said for all inquests.

I'll leave it here on this one, let's see what happens in he ludicrous trial.

The first inquest on Hillsborough was a 'load of bollocks' and has been proven and why the Prime Minister of the time, David Cameron, gave a deep and full apology and the Attorney General ordered a new inquest.
This should fill you in if you care to watch it in full; some of it may be very distressing.
https://youtu.be/BWKnjpzb9LE

To know that people like those two beautiful Hicks girls, of a similar age to me, who loved their football like I did, might have survived if the response had been different is something their parents will have to live with. How someone comes to terms with loss like that I do not know.

I hope that when writing anything negative people think of the families in this. You might troll and say 'COSP' but the way they have suffered repeatedly and at every turn has only added to an immeasurable loss.

I get where Digger the Dog is coming from here. At the time of Hillsborough I was going to a lot of Division One games all over the country and every week fans of all teams (Liverpool included) would turn up late at games with a few beers in them (not necessarily drunk though) and push their way from the back on to crammed terraces regardless of what this did to anyone around them. At the time it seemed like a lot of fun and we were all ignorant to the fact that the police weren't always in control and able to make it safe. It just seemed normal. 30 years on and of course it seems crazy that nobody realised that a tragedy like Hillsborough was waiting to happen and that we were all acting like morons.

My point is that whether anyone likes to admit it or not the fans who would have been pushing to squeeze on to that terrace should shoulder some responsibility and while the police were also very much at fault before and after, it was a tragic horrendous accident caused by a number of factors (should we be prosecuting the Millwall or Chelsea fans from the 1970's whose hooliganism caused the clubs to put up fences in the 80's by the way?). The campaigners have done a brilliant job in making sure that the police don't walk away from it scott free but it wasn't all their fault and I hope that they are given an unbiased and fair trial.

RampantDuke wrote:I get where Digger the Dog is coming from here. At the time of Hillsborough I was going to a lot of Division One games all over the country and every week fans of all teams (Liverpool included) would turn up late at games with a few beers in them (not necessarily drunk though) and push their way from the back on to crammed terraces regardless of what this did to anyone around them. At the time it seemed like a lot of fun and we were all ignorant to the fact that the police weren't always in control and able to make it safe. It just seemed normal. 30 years on and of course it seems crazy that nobody realised that a tragedy like Hillsborough was waiting to happen and that we were all acting like morons.

My point is that whether anyone likes to admit it or not the fans who would have been pushing to squeeze on to that terrace should shoulder some responsibility and while the police were also very much at fault before and after, it was a tragic horrendous accident caused by a number of factors (should we be prosecuting the Millwall or Chelsea fans from the 1970's whose hooliganism caused the clubs to put up fences in the 80's by the way?). The campaigners have done a brilliant job in making sure that the police don't walk away from it scott free but it wasn't all their fault and I hope that they are given an unbiased and fair trial.

Have you read the Hillsborough Independent Panel's report?
Did you come to Hillsborough when we played there? Did you walk through the tunnel at the Leppings Lane end?

Auntie Merge wrote:

RampantDuke wrote:I get where Digger the Dog is coming from here. At the time of Hillsborough I was going to a lot of Division One games all over the country and every week fans of all teams (Liverpool included) would turn up late at games with a few beers in them (not necessarily drunk though) and push their way from the back on to crammed terraces regardless of what this did to anyone around them. At the time it seemed like a lot of fun and we were all ignorant to the fact that the police weren't always in control and able to make it safe. It just seemed normal. 30 years on and of course it seems crazy that nobody realised that a tragedy like Hillsborough was waiting to happen and that we were all acting like morons.

My point is that whether anyone likes to admit it or not the fans who would have been pushing to squeeze on to that terrace should shoulder some responsibility and while the police were also very much at fault before and after, it was a tragic horrendous accident caused by a number of factors (should we be prosecuting the Millwall or Chelsea fans from the 1970's whose hooliganism caused the clubs to put up fences in the 80's by the way?). The campaigners have done a brilliant job in making sure that the police don't walk away from it scott free but it wasn't all their fault and I hope that they are given an unbiased and fair trial.

Have you read the Hillsborough Independent Panel's report?
Did you come to Hillsborough when we played there? Did you walk through the tunnel at the Leppings Lane end?

What relevance has this got to the point being made? I went to Hillsborough when we played there. I walked through the tunnel at the Leppings Lane end. I also happen to largely agree with what RampantDuke says. Or am I not allowed to, because I went to Hillsborough and walked through that tunnel?

VERY VERY TOUCHY SUBJECT

of course fans rushing in had a effect they killed 96 people, if i was one that would be a huge burden to live with.
failing to control said people and safety measures not good enough is disgusting and justice starts at the top.

i was a teenager attending west ham and spurs games during this time and even tho it was always packed i remember being turned away from certain stands due to full and running to next gate etc all the time.

as for commenting on the recent fire, are you having a luagh, in this day and age failing fire regs brings huge fines so installing something thats not suitable just becuase its cheaper deserves a prison sentence.

While we're on about justice I wonder what the Juventos fans think about this. Just a thought.

grumpy old git wrote:While we're on about justice I wonder what the Juventos fans think about this. Just a thought.

Stupid comment.

As if the 96 that died don't deserve justice because something that happened that also involved Liverpool.

Hang your head