To be, or not to be....

[davei]

Arnu, I've seen lots of your posts on here about this and that and you make valid points.

However, when Wayne first took over it was at a time of some turmoil for the club, so the interim post read right. In hindsight, at that time this club was still a force to be reckoned with and with JS leaving, we would still have appeared attractive to a more seasoned manager. We chose basically, an untested individual (at this level) when in fact, based on the confusion within the club at the time, we needed someone from outside the club to set things straight. And let us not forget, Wayne was in the system and had been for some time and thus by default, was part of the problem.

One of the biggest naysayers to his interim hiring and further promotion was Vindelot (from day one). Now I got in to some real e mail exchanges with Vindelot over not giving Wayne a fair shake (mostly to wind him up) and suggested Wayne be given some time to sort things out. I always look at a quarter of the season mark as being indicative of where we might be heading and at the half we point, the die is cast. By the end of the first season I was on Vindelot's side and I truly feel Wayne has been given a 3 + year journey (taking in to account his full time here) to get to where we are today. Frankly, it is not good enough.

The board appear to be too reluctant to put their nuts in the financial vice so to speak and make the decisions that really, really do need to be made. I can wholeheartedly understand that, but as the saying goes, "if you cannot stand the heat etc etc" and I believe being on a board of a professional sports franchise is Latin for heat.

I think for too long while JS was here, complacency set in and the board were able to blithely carry on without having to be scared of a downside. Now a downside really exists and it is time for them to step up, and for various reasons which I am sure are valid from their point of view, they want no part of it.

Solve that problem first, then, you will go a long way to bringing some stability and success back to this club. And of note, a maxim I always use in my business life is, NO decision, IS a decision.........

[ARNU]

I can remember being shouted down by so many especially on the old forum for saying that the board/supporters had a small club mentality.Ironically its me who has gotten used to the small budget and the over carefulness with the purse strings,I've really bought into all that and now the very people who jumped on me somehow think the board can get on the blower to Paul ince and start buying in Barcelona players LOL!!

I understand the boards small club mentality but ive always thought that would result in something not dis similar to what we've got now in that we have a club happy just to finish 22nd and survive.You cant blame Burnett for that and despite it being the target set for him hes finished 9th and 14th,so I reckon he's due some slack.Also,havent seen any sensible ideas for a replacement,just a load of armchair supporters treating it all like playing football manager on their x box.

I agree with you Dave,sack the board.

[stanton101]

Ask tranmere and Cheltenham fans the same question. Ffs get a grip!

[Mike the Dagger]

Our natural level is bottom half of league 2.

Based on what?

Based on the last 4 seasons we only finished top half once under wayne as well.Why do you think we are naturally conference level ?? All those players from the olden days are no longer here and we've been in the league 9 years consecutively I don't think your analysis is really fair.John Still,The Messiah,only finished top half of league 2 twice as well in all his time here and he ****** off because the board sold his best player,funny that.The hatred of Wayne Burnett by some has clouded their judgement to the point where they'd rather we were in the conference being a pub team from Essex than be in the league.Surely its win win for them then ? They'd be ****** off when he keeps us up again wont they ?

Did you not read what I said ?

Do the maths on average attendances. That is our "natural level".

[ARNU]

So using your measurement we're over achieving yet you still want to sack the manager Mike ? You'd rather be in the conference ? Really ?

[Mike the Dagger]

So using your measurement we're over achieving yet you still want to sack the manager Mike ? You'd rather be in the conference ? Really ?

What I am saying is that the Conference is the club's natural level.

We aren't overachieving while we are hanging on by our fingernails though. The trapdoor at the bottom of the FL is a small one and generally there is a basket case or two to block it so once promoted it is a lot easier to stay than it is to get back.

[ARNU]

So using your measurement we're over achieving yet you still want to sack the manager Mike ? You'd rather be in the conference ? Really ?

What I am saying is that the Conference is the club's natural level.

We aren't overachieving while we are hanging on by our fingernails though. The trapdoor at the bottom of the FL is a small one and generally there is a basket case or two to block it so once promoted it is a lot easier to stay than it is to get back.

Yeah today we're 23rd or whatever but when WB finishes 9th and 14th hes clearly over achieving.Luton were in the conference for a good few years and had gates which should have had them in league 1 or higher.Not sure exactly what you are getting at.We are over achieving idf we finish 22nd by your standards.

[Mike the Dagger]

What I am saying is that the Conference is the club's natural level.

We aren't overachieving while we are hanging on by our fingernails though. The trapdoor at the bottom of the FL is a small one and generally there is a basket case or two to block it so once promoted it is a lot easier to stay than it is to get back.

Yeah today we're 23rd or whatever but when WB finishes 9th and 14th hes clearly over achieving.Luton were in the conference for a good few years and had gates which should have had them in league 1 or higher.Not sure exactly what you are getting at.We are over achieving idf we finish 22nd by your standards.

Yes we are overachieving being in the Football League. Our natural level is Conference.

When I wrote the item at DiggerDagger in 2010 we had been improving year on year and building the attendances slowly but surely to the point where we were approaching being a "natural" member of the 92, we were 96th on the list of average attendances. We all know that the crowds have diminished since then. The only way to change that is serve up some decent football at home.

We might hang on for years as a struggling FL club with a basket case or two below us, but it isn't going to be much fun watching it and sooner or later gravity will take over like it so nearly did in 2012/13.

[ARNU]

Ok I get your point about natural position being linked to gates.I agree while we just have the target of survival then its never going to be that great.It has become a chore for a lot of us to attend,me included.But I don't see what good a new manager will do with the same targets set by the club as those set for Wayne.I think our best chance lay in sticking with an already overachieving manager.I agree that flirting with relegation year in year out will inevitably drive us all away to watch something with a bit more excitement.

[davei]

For Arnu and Stanton.

Arnu, you wrote "It has become a chore for a lot of us to attend, me included. But I don't see what good a new manager will do with the same targets set by the club as those set for Wayne."

You are giving yourself away here mate. If a new Manager comes in and is given the same targets, well, the old saying the definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result applies. A new Manager would have to be given an ultimatum to get this team going, because the way things are, we're going south at the end of the season.

For Stanton (and Arnu). I gleaned this from the wires re Tranmere. "Tranmere operated with one of the lowest budgets in League One, survived (note, survived) and became a club where ambition was sacrificed in the priority of fighting a black hole of debt. One of the reasons Rovers were forced to make cut-backs was because attendances at Prenton Park went into decline". (Arnu)

Currently, not that I am aware of and stand to be corrected if wrong, but D&R are not fighting a black hole of debt.

Further " The public were not excited by a diet of relegation battles with bargain basement signings. THE LACK OF AMBITION was a turn of for fair weather fans (Arnu) and rather than appoint an experienced manager in such circumstances they gambled on a rookie with no experience as a number one." Sound familiar...?

Lastly, "More than 50 different names have appeared on the team sheet during the season, many of whom made only fleeting contributions".

Stanton, no need to ask Tranmere fans what happened ffs, we are doing exactly the same.......