.png)
I don't think it's as simple as LibDems losing support the moment they went into the Coalition. In fact I think a lot of their voters, whether it be protest votes or proper supporters, were actually pretty optimistic initially, when they managed to get into government that they'd flex their muscles a bit and put their foot down, knowing that the Conservatives needed them. As it turned out they were spineless and have essentially been "yes" men. I think the real turning point for a lot of LibDem supporters was tition fees, which Clegg pushed so strongly for in the run up to the election. Now they can't be trusted.
You're right, it doesn't make them racist for wanting out of Europe, but then I don't believe a lot of people are voting for them solely for that reason. Once again, if your biggest priority is the referendum then there are nicer parties (yep, the Greens again) that want a referendum but don't come with all of the right wing stuff that UKIP do.
I can't agree that UKIP isn't a racist or bigoted party, but can concede that not everyone that votes for them holds bigotted or racist view. I'd still say their in a very small minority though. They have a number of links with European far-right parties in Italy, Denmark and Holland, the "we're the only party to ban BNP member from joining" line isn't something to shout about either, there's a reason they have to do that. There's numerous examples out there of UKIP members making xenophobic, homophobic and islamophobic remarks too, and not just from "the loons". Councillors and MEPs been caught rewriting the content of their websites to remove the patently bigoted comments too.
UKIP currently have a media-friendly face in Farage (who also seems to get a disproportionate amount of coverage by The Beeb) but as was proven recently by his interview with James O'Brien on LBC, he's nothing more than a hypocrite, and yep, a bigot. He's been pulled up numerous times on making up statistics over immigration for no reason other than scaremongering - most recently when the restrictions for Romanians and Bulgarians changed in January this year. The problem is that by people voting UKIP, even as protest vote, the other parties believe they need to pull further to the right to regain their support, which is essentially what we've seen over the 5 years from all three major parties.
OT Scottish Referendum
Sounds reasonable to me Tom.
Unfortunately UKIP are the protest vote now.Someone on the dole with no chance of work with poor living conditions ,bedroom tax and foodbank handouts is never going to vote for a party that wants you to separate your rubbish.
Unfortunately UKIP are the protest vote now.Someone on the dole with no chance of work with poor living conditions ,bedroom tax and foodbank handouts is never going to vote for a party that wants you to separate your rubbish.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
No party is about one sole issueARNU wrote:Sounds reasonable to me Tom.
Unfortunately UKIP are the protest vote now.Someone on the dole with no chance of work with poor living conditions ,bedroom tax and foodbank handouts is never going to vote for a party that wants you to separate your rubbish.
Ukip will gain votes from Labour as well as the Conservatives.Labour has alienated its traditional core voters in recent times and currently offers not much of an alternative with career politicians like Milliband,who incidently is also a posh little rich kid far removed from the realities of the working man Labour are supposed to represent.Cameron and his old Etonian cronies also struggle to connect with the average man on the street and for a long time have failed to shrug off the fact that they are so out of touch with the day to day life and trials of the population.Clegg just downright lied and put himself and his party practically out of business with lies about tuition fees and other core manifesto promises.Each of the parties may well have some good ideas but they are all rather bland and in tough times it is historically recognised that countries tend to vere off to the far right in ideology.Mix todays difficult financial climate and a populist like Farage who does seem like a nice bloke on the face of it and it is the recipe for something potentially quite ugly.However if neither Conservative,Labour or the Lib Dems are connecting with you and your situation where do you turn ?? How do you make your voice heard ??
Green party dosent connect with me at all,Id rather chop a tree down than hug it so where do I place my vote ?? My life whilst bearable has been greatly effected by the financial collapse.I am certainly worse off under this coalition.Cameron,Milliband and Clegg are saying nothing that gives me any great optimism.Worryingly I have to confess that Farage does.
Green party dosent connect with me at all,Id rather chop a tree down than hug it so where do I place my vote ?? My life whilst bearable has been greatly effected by the financial collapse.I am certainly worse off under this coalition.Cameron,Milliband and Clegg are saying nothing that gives me any great optimism.Worryingly I have to confess that Farage does.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
-
SUSSEX DAGGER
- Posts: 2619
- Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am
Will recall one of the greatest Parliamentary speeches I ever heard and that was brought about over Scottish devaluation.It was made by Michael Foot ( he ended up with a defence policy as good as the Daggers).
In 1979 the Scottish Nationalist walked through the lobby with the Tories and those Political whores, who were called liberals at the time, on a confidence vote that brought down the Callaghan Government.
Foot closed the debate for the Government and weather you agree with his politics or not it was one of the most brilliant and hilarious speeches ever made. He derided the SNP and Liberals for what he described as the most grisly of assignations and it was the first time that Turkeys had voted for an early xmas, which was proved at the subsequent election when many of them lost their seats.
At the time the Government was in a minority as the Liberals walked out of the pact they had with Labour some weeks earlier. The Scottish Nationalist were out for revenge because a devaluation referendum was lost as 40% never turned up to vote.the bill had insisted on this for the referendum to have any validity.
For weeks the Government was holding on by its finger tips and was hoping to last as long as it could because the economy was showing signs of recovery after the winter of discontent,
It was quite comical at the time the vote was taken there was Ambulances in the Car Park carrying MPS who were to ill to attend, one contained a Labour MP from Barnsley who only had days to live and the vote was expected to be that close there was even fears that he would die on route which would have brought down the Government.
As it was the Government lost the confidence motion by 1 vote the first time a Government had lost a confidence vote in over a 145 years.
It was because of the actions of these Scottish Nationalist over devaloution we ended up with Thatcher.
In 1979 the Scottish Nationalist walked through the lobby with the Tories and those Political whores, who were called liberals at the time, on a confidence vote that brought down the Callaghan Government.
Foot closed the debate for the Government and weather you agree with his politics or not it was one of the most brilliant and hilarious speeches ever made. He derided the SNP and Liberals for what he described as the most grisly of assignations and it was the first time that Turkeys had voted for an early xmas, which was proved at the subsequent election when many of them lost their seats.
At the time the Government was in a minority as the Liberals walked out of the pact they had with Labour some weeks earlier. The Scottish Nationalist were out for revenge because a devaluation referendum was lost as 40% never turned up to vote.the bill had insisted on this for the referendum to have any validity.
For weeks the Government was holding on by its finger tips and was hoping to last as long as it could because the economy was showing signs of recovery after the winter of discontent,
It was quite comical at the time the vote was taken there was Ambulances in the Car Park carrying MPS who were to ill to attend, one contained a Labour MP from Barnsley who only had days to live and the vote was expected to be that close there was even fears that he would die on route which would have brought down the Government.
As it was the Government lost the confidence motion by 1 vote the first time a Government had lost a confidence vote in over a 145 years.
It was because of the actions of these Scottish Nationalist over devaloution we ended up with Thatcher.
What is Farage saying that gives you optimism?ARNU wrote:Ukip will gain votes from Labour as well as the Conservatives.Labour has alienated its traditional core voters in recent times and currently offers not much of an alternative with career politicians like Milliband,who incidently is also a posh little rich kid far removed from the realities of the working man Labour are supposed to represent.Cameron and his old Etonian cronies also struggle to connect with the average man on the street and for a long time have failed to shrug off the fact that they are so out of touch with the day to day life and trials of the population.Clegg just downright lied and put himself and his party practically out of business with lies about tuition fees and other core manifesto promises.Each of the parties may well have some good ideas but they are all rather bland and in tough times it is historically recognised that countries tend to vere off to the far right in ideology.Mix todays difficult financial climate and a populist like Farage who does seem like a nice bloke on the face of it and it is the recipe for something potentially quite ugly.However if neither Conservative,Labour or the Lib Dems are connecting with you and your situation where do you turn ?? How do you make your voice heard ??
Green party dosent connect with me at all,Id rather chop a tree down than hug it so where do I place my vote ?? My life whilst bearable has been greatly effected by the financial collapse.I am certainly worse off under this coalition.Cameron,Milliband and Clegg are saying nothing that gives me any great optimism.Worryingly I have to confess that Farage does.
There is no one single issue although I do have some sympathy for the controlling of our borders and greater independence from Europe.I don't consider myself a goose stepping Nazi for having those views.I have a pathological dislike of the BNP afterall. I listen to Farage a lot and sort of admire his ability to withstand all the shit they throw at him.(And lets face it if there was any shit they'd have found it and bought him down by now)He absolutely destroyed Clegg in those debates and now has Cameron and Milliband being far more pleasant to him as they realise its their voters who are leaving to support UKIP in droves.He is not establishment either which also resonates with me.If you really think Cameron will get the change we want in Europe you have been sorely misled.TomMc wrote:What is Farage saying that gives you optimism?ARNU wrote:Ukip will gain votes from Labour as well as the Conservatives.Labour has alienated its traditional core voters in recent times and currently offers not much of an alternative with career politicians like Milliband,who incidently is also a posh little rich kid far removed from the realities of the working man Labour are supposed to represent.Cameron and his old Etonian cronies also struggle to connect with the average man on the street and for a long time have failed to shrug off the fact that they are so out of touch with the day to day life and trials of the population.Clegg just downright lied and put himself and his party practically out of business with lies about tuition fees and other core manifesto promises.Each of the parties may well have some good ideas but they are all rather bland and in tough times it is historically recognised that countries tend to vere off to the far right in ideology.Mix todays difficult financial climate and a populist like Farage who does seem like a nice bloke on the face of it and it is the recipe for something potentially quite ugly.However if neither Conservative,Labour or the Lib Dems are connecting with you and your situation where do you turn ?? How do you make your voice heard ??
Green party dosent connect with me at all,Id rather chop a tree down than hug it so where do I place my vote ?? My life whilst bearable has been greatly effected by the financial collapse.I am certainly worse off under this coalition.Cameron,Milliband and Clegg are saying nothing that gives me any great optimism.Worryingly I have to confess that Farage does.
I have to re-iterate to you again though.My vote has been one of protest at the establishment rather than of any real support for UKIP.
In past elections I have voted Thatcher,Thatcher,Blair Balir then Clegg.So a bit of a floater really.Thatcher at the time impressed me as did Blair.Both made decisions that with hindsight Id never have voted for them in the 1st place.I will vote UKIP next May if certain things don't change to my liking.I believe its important to vote,people died that we could.Spoiling my paper is an option I suppose but who is going to really react to that ?
Incidently I live in the Constituency of Upminster so will get a tory whatever I do.Too much middle class poshness and greed over here for me to have any effect !!
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
Digger wrote "Where about BC Dave? I'm visiting Vancouver in Jan."
Sorry for being a bit tardy Digger, been in Vancouver. I live on Vancouver Island, just off the coast of Vancouver. Don't get fooled by looking at a map, as the crow flies, in distance I am something like 50 miles from Vancouver. Including the drive to the ferry terminal, the wait in the ferry terminal, the ferry ride and drive home once on this side, well I left my daughters place at 4.00PM, got to my place at 9.45PM.
Vancouver is a great city, I am sure you will love the place. One suggestion though, Vancouver in January, bring a rain jacket, wellies, an umbrella and maybe snow shoes............. If you need more info let me know I'll send you my e mail address..............
Dave
Sorry for being a bit tardy Digger, been in Vancouver. I live on Vancouver Island, just off the coast of Vancouver. Don't get fooled by looking at a map, as the crow flies, in distance I am something like 50 miles from Vancouver. Including the drive to the ferry terminal, the wait in the ferry terminal, the ferry ride and drive home once on this side, well I left my daughters place at 4.00PM, got to my place at 9.45PM.
Vancouver is a great city, I am sure you will love the place. One suggestion though, Vancouver in January, bring a rain jacket, wellies, an umbrella and maybe snow shoes............. If you need more info let me know I'll send you my e mail address..............
Dave
-
bloke down the pub
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:08 am
What ever the vote ,what time do you think the fighting will start , I reckon about 11pm Saturday.
I suppose it depends how close the vote is.This wont go away unless there is a massive decision either way.3 or 4% difference wont be enough to shut everyone up.Whatever the outcome,Cameron's coalition needs to sort things out now for everyone not just the rich and the elite.bloke down the pub wrote:What ever the vote ,what time do you think the fighting will start , I reckon about 11pm Saturday.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !
-
bloke down the pub
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:08 am
Not sure how I feel about the Scotts now.Everyone that voted yes should consider whether you want to be a part of the U K or move out.
-
Mike the Dagger
- Posts: 2307
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:09 am
- Contact:
When is the referendum on English Independence?
I reckon a good proportion of the yes vote was more of a "get rid of Cameron and his cronies" vote than anything anti English.Remember out of 59 constituencies only 1 is conservative up there yet they still get Tory government.Whatever your political persuasion that is a bit unfair Id say.
Bollix to Shampoo, it's real poo we want !