Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Discuss matters to do with anything football related
Post Reply
rechitski kinzhal
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:24 pm

Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by rechitski kinzhal » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:14 am

So we had the nonsense of a period of silence before the game on saturday (and all games).
What a nonsense ..... let's scrap it.
For the record I am a great believer in the importance of Remembrance Day, and was at church yesterday where a large part of the service was devoted to remembering the soldiers killed at war. I am also very pleased that the whole Remembrance topic is now much more high profile than it was 25 years ago when it could easily have fallen by the wayside.
But that is no excuse for the ridiculous tokenism of the football authorities to "enforce" clubs to have a period of silence ...... they can't even spare the full two minutes so it was called a "period" ...... probably less than one minute at Ashton Gate. Who are the players remembering? ....... most Premier league games have barely 2 or 3 British citizens in the team .... are the German players happy to show respect to the British fallen ..... well, the ethnic ones whose parents fought in the war probably are ...... but do you think the Agentinian players want to remember the fallen British in the Falklands War, and surely the Russians would rather remember the fallen at Stalingrad and Leningrad (but they do that on 9th March), and I am sure the players from former Yugoslavia also have their own fallen to remember, and so do the Africans. Or maybe the foreign players are remembering the fallen British in thanks that they now have the ability to come to a free UK and earn millions of pounds! Football is full of greed, self-interest and, apparently, racism ....... but that's ok because we do remember those that fought for this country. Oh, please.
Just how many of the players, officials and fans at these games were in church, or the Senotaph yesterday, and how many will be embracing the two minutes silence at 11.00 today?
The bottom line it is a cynical ploy by the football authorities to try and show they are a "caring" organisation, whereas actually that is far from the case.
Remembrance day is very important ....... it has already been devalued by changing the day from the Sunday nearest the 11th, to whatever day is the 11th (and that was a reversal from the original conception of Remembrance day).
If we are going to have Remembrance day ..... and my personal opinion is we should, then let's have just one day that the whole of the country will be aware of, and that as many people as possible can pay attention to. Make a decision one way or another, when Remembrance day should be (the Sunday would probably be easier, and more appropriate). But at football ..... NO ..... we all should remember, but please do not make brownie points out of it.

Ilford Dagger
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:59 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Ilford Dagger » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:59 pm

Some interesting points raised but I think on balance they should keep it at football although I agree with you that few would have attended Church on Remembrance Sunday or acknowledged the 2 minute silence at 11am today (for the record I did both as always). I assume the Clubs & FA etc donated funds towards the Poppy Appeal which is good & it would be nice to think football had a conscience.
I must admit I think it is good when Clubs have current or ex Servicemen to attend & they are always well received & rightly so in my view.

Richie
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:52 am

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Richie » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:25 pm

I think it should be kept but Everton (pretty sure it was them) did it on Saturday the 2nd as it was their nearest home match. That's just absurd, clubs just don't want to be accused of not caring.

Tranced
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:56 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Tranced » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:59 pm

rechitski kinzhal wrote:Just how many of the players, officials and fans at these games were in church, or the Senotaph yesterday, and how many will be embracing the two minutes silence at 11.00 today?
It's about paying your respects when you can. To stay silent and think, for 2 minutes - whatever day or time of day - isn't that much of a hardship considering these men and woman gave their lives for us to be able to do so.

It's not just about remembering the British, either. It mainly is, for us (of course), but it's also about remembering every allied soldier who gave their life in the name of democracy and freedom. So the fact that a lot of clubs don't have many English or British players doesn't matter - in fact, they should be just as grateful, as they wouldn't have the lovely lifestyle they do now if it weren't for the allied forces in WW1 and WW2 - I doubt very much that they'd be getting paid what they do, and have the freedoms they do, under the ruling of the German Empire.

I know you kind of raised that point, but it still stands. We're free (or as 'free' as we're ever gonna be), and that's thanks to millions of people who we should never, ever forget.

Your point about the Falklands doesn't come into it. All soldiers are brave, but when I buy my poppy and do my silence, that's in remembrance of the World Wars. I don't want anything to do with Iraq or Afghan. Recent events shouldn't overshadow millions of people's bravery in the past.

rechitski kinzhal
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:24 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by rechitski kinzhal » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:21 pm

.......... further to my original post, we now have another example of toe-curling tokenism with the silence/applause in respect of Nelson Mandela.
All those years when we were waiting for him to be released from Robben Island and when he first became president of RSA I spent a lot of time reading and researching about him (forgotten most of it now) and I came to the conclusion that on balance he was a great man, and one that is worthy of the admiration he gets all over the world. Probably not the deity some people make him out to be, but clearly one of the most influential and amazing people during my lifetime. I shall certainly remember him and would be happy to pay my respects. But not at a bloody football match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If people want to pay tribute in whatever way, then they can go to the South African Embassy, they can sign the condolence book,they surely will follow the funeral on tv, they will certainly have been watching all the news programmes and reading every paragaph in the newspaper "pull-out specials". If the general consensus is that he was such an important man that the nation needs a period of remembrance, then maybe a nationwide two minute silence at 11.00am on Sunday.
But why do the football authorities have to always jump on the compassion bandwagon when it is clearly an excruciating attempt at deflecting attention away from the fact there is still racism in football.
I was trying to recall whether there was a silence at football in memory of Mrs Thatcher - can someone answer that? I could have accepted that as at least she was our leader, and not the leader of one of the lesser countries of the world situated a hemisphere away. Did we get one for Reagan, and will we for Gorbachev? They may not have had "universal" approval the way Mandela seems to ...... but let's not forget that, to a greater or lesser degree (one which we will probably never know) Mandela was a terrorist.
Of course I have come to expect this over-reaction at times like this ...... BBC cancelled several programmes last night to pay tribute to Mandela - now I believe the story was so big that it deserved recognition, but why did they cancel programmes on both BBC1 and BBC2 and show Mandela on both sides at the same time. Those people that were interested, and I am sure there were millions, would not have been able to see both sides at the same time, and those of us that felt we already had enough information about the dear man, or were simply not interested, had to endure interviews with such people as the president of USA, the drummer from a band that had made a song about him, and Peter Tatchell.

errrrrrrm, am I on my own here?

matt_drfc
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:58 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by matt_drfc » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:35 pm

To be honest, I'm not too fussed whether there's a minute silence or not. I would respect the decision regardless, it happened in the cricket last night, golf today, so I think it will happen in football. At the end of the day, it's not a massive problem it's only a minute or two of our time, so just get on with i'd say.

SUSSEX DAGGER
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:47 am

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by SUSSEX DAGGER » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:50 am

Wonder who will be remembering next Saturday when we play our next home game. Rest assured who ever it may be their passing will be honoured with another 90 minutes of respectful silence.

Paul from Barking
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:59 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Paul from Barking » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:15 pm

rechitski kinzhal wrote:.......... further to my original post, we now have another example of toe-curling tokenism with the silence/applause in respect of Nelson Mandela.
All those years when we were waiting for him to be released from Robben Island and when he first became president of RSA I spent a lot of time reading and researching about him (forgotten most of it now) and I came to the conclusion that on balance he was a great man, and one that is worthy of the admiration he gets all over the world. Probably not the deity some people make him out to be, but clearly one of the most influential and amazing people during my lifetime. I shall certainly remember him and would be happy to pay my respects. But not at a bloody football match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If people want to pay tribute in whatever way, then they can go to the South African Embassy, they can sign the condolence book,they surely will follow the funeral on tv, they will certainly have been watching all the news programmes and reading every paragaph in the newspaper "pull-out specials". If the general consensus is that he was such an important man that the nation needs a period of remembrance, then maybe a nationwide two minute silence at 11.00am on Sunday.
But why do the football authorities have to always jump on the compassion bandwagon when it is clearly an excruciating attempt at deflecting attention away from the fact there is still racism in football.
I was trying to recall whether there was a silence at football in memory of Mrs Thatcher - can someone answer that? I could have accepted that as at least she was our leader, and not the leader of one of the lesser countries of the world situated a hemisphere away. Did we get one for Reagan, and will we for Gorbachev? They may not have had "universal" approval the way Mandela seems to ...... but let's not forget that, to a greater or lesser degree (one which we will probably never know) Mandela was a terrorist.
Of course I have come to expect this over-reaction at times like this ...... BBC cancelled several programmes last night to pay tribute to Mandela - now I believe the story was so big that it deserved recognition, but why did they cancel programmes on both BBC1 and BBC2 and show Mandela on both sides at the same time. Those people that were interested, and I am sure there were millions, would not have been able to see both sides at the same time, and those of us that felt we already had enough information about the dear man, or were simply not interested, had to endure interviews with such people as the president of USA, the drummer from a band that had made a song about him, and Peter Tatchell.

errrrrrrm, am I on my own here?
It's called fawning sycophancy

User avatar
Mike the Dagger
Posts: 2145
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:09 am
Contact:

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Mike the Dagger » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:04 pm

So what do we think of this one then???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26685698

OBD
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:23 am

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by OBD » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:45 pm

Mike the Dagger wrote:So what do we think of this one then???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26685698
An extra 7 minutes in the bar (or a swift half) for those who don't want to partake.
@OfficialBigDave

User avatar
Auntie Merge
Posts: 1493
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Auntie Merge » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:39 pm

Mike the Dagger wrote:So what do we think of this one then???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26685698

I'm alright with it. I really feel so emotional about Hillsborough and particularly what the families have gone through over the past 25 years. Even more so the real truths have emerged.

Whenever someone mentions Hillsborough, I am back at the game on 15th April 1989, Hayes v Leytonstone Ilford, and us all crouched around Ilford Dagger's pocket radio listening to the news live and then going into the bar and seeing the images live on television. It was horrific from a distance but for those who were there, I honestly don't know how they have ever come to terms with what happened.

I also think of Sarah and Victoria Hicks, two beautiful young girls who were like me, passionate about their football.

It could have been any one of us that day, any football fan, the same way it could have been any football fan at Bradford v Lincoln in 1985, but none of the families of the Bradford Fire had to deal with the accusation, hate and lies that the families from Liverpool did. Families who have been completely mocked for their grief 'COSP' , or told that they weren't allowed to grieve because 'Liverpool fans were responsible for 39 people dead at Heysel', even though some poor stewarding and another stadium not fit for purpose was also mentioned in the reports, as well as drunken fans.

If there is silence, I will stand in silence. We owe it to every football fan to remember those who died, as it could have so easily been any of us.

I wrote about Hillsborough on our first visit there; it was haunting. These were my thoughts at the time (I will try to sort out the images)
http://suzannecollier.com/?p=226

User avatar
Mike the Dagger
Posts: 2145
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:09 am
Contact:

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Mike the Dagger » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:18 pm

Auntie Merge wrote:

I'm alright with it. I really feel so emotional about Hillsborough and particularly what the families have gone through over the past 25 years. Even more so the real truths have emerged.

Whenever someone mentions Hillsborough, I am back at the game on 15th April 1989, Hayes v Leytonstone Ilford, and us all crouched around Ilford Dagger's pocket radio listening to the news live and then going into the bar and seeing the images live on television. It was horrific from a distance but for those who were there, I honestly don't know how they have ever come to terms with what happened.

I also think of Sarah and Victoria Hicks, two beautiful young girls who were like me, passionate about their football.

It could have been any one of us that day, any football fan, the same way it could have been any football fan at Bradford v Lincoln in 1985, but none of the families of the Bradford Fire had to deal with the accusation, hate and lies that the families from Liverpool did. Families who have been completely mocked for their grief 'COSP' , or told that they weren't allowed to grieve because 'Liverpool fans were responsible for 39 people dead at Heysel', even though some poor stewarding and another stadium not fit for purpose was also mentioned in the reports, as well as drunken fans.

If there is silence, I will stand in silence. We owe it to every football fan to remember those who died, as it could have so easily been any of us.

I wrote about Hillsborough on our first visit there; it was haunting. These were my thoughts at the time (I will try to sort out the images)
http://suzannecollier.com/?p=226
To be fair Suze, no one has ever blamed the victims of Hillborough for anything other than getting there in good time for a game. The issue comes with the many Liverpool fans who didn't get there on time and caused the crush. There were a lot of things that went wrong that day, but the the fans of Liverpool FC are not blameless any more than the police and FA are.

Time to put Hillsborough in the past and stop the endless search for someone to pin it all on.

Daggers No 2 Fan
Posts: 229
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:02 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Daggers No 2 Fan » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:31 pm

^^^ This.

There were many parties at fault. Nothing will ever change that and nothing will ever bring back those that died.
It's time to move on.

Ilford Dagger
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:59 pm

Re: Scrap "Remembrance" at football.

Post by Ilford Dagger » Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:23 pm

A very poignant article, Suzanne, I thought much the same as you when we visited the Memorial after the game. We thought it a good job we only had 600 odd fans at Sheff Wed otherwise things might have got a little cramped.
I honestly cannot remember going into the Bar at Hayes on the fateful day in 1989 but clearly remember sitting on the terrace listening in horror & sheer disbelief at what happened at Hillsborough. Lots of people at fault that day, hopefully the new Inquest will resolve all issues once & for all & enable relatives to get justice done at long last.

Post Reply