Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

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ARNU
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by ARNU » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:20 pm

davei wrote: Regardless of that, he was found guilty, served his time and has been released back in to society. Are you now suggesting he should never work again plying his trade, which, if you are, he would then go on the dole or welfare and continue to be a burden to society. And I do not for one minute buy in to the argument he is, or could ever be seen as, a role model to some kids because he's kicking a football.

If you are suggesting he should NEVER play football again because of what he did, then perhaps you should start writing as much venomous comments against someone like, say Tony Blair, who continues to make millions of pounds giving speeches around the world and at the same time has been hired as some kind of a Middle Eastern "peace maker". Where were those dastardly weapons of mass destruction anyway, and how many lives were lost as a result of looking for them. And while I see the point about the 6 year old being abused and people not wanting to work with the perpetrator, in this case, the victim was not an innocent 6 year old.
The victim was a human being who hadn't given permission for him to sling a mix up her.Or is that ok then if someone just jumps on without consent.She didn't consent.Whats the problem here ?? So its ok to just jump on any ol bird lying pissed in the gutter in Romford on Saturday night.Are any of you really struggling with this,hes a ****** rapist.
As for the role model bit...you know what I mean here surely? He will be paraded around on tv,in magazines,on posters on little girls and boys bedroom walls,having his photo taken with kids,taken on hospital visits and doing local community work and whether you like it or not is in a position of role model.He loses ghis right to that position if he gets found guilty of rape.If hes cleared that's the only game changer for me.He was sentenced to 5 years surely he should have been banned at least until the 5 yrs was up.

So I assume all you evans supporters would let Rolf harris back on telly when they release him ?? Or is that different ?? (And you know it aint by the way)

As for your rant about Blair....hes a ***** I agree.
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ARNU
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by ARNU » Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:21 pm

TomMc wrote:
davei wrote: Regardless of that, he was found guilty, served his time and has been released back in to society.
He hasn't served his time, he's out on licence (ie any indiscretion then he goes back to prison for the rest of his sentence, currently two years.

He's a convicted sex offender, who doesn't think he's done anything wrong and whose father in law is paying for a website that tries to discredit the victim.

His conviction would stop him being a director at a football league club, why should he be allowed to still take part as a player?
Spot on.
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davei
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by davei » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:00 pm

To be clear to both child like Tom and Arnu, all I am debating here is whether he has the right to continue in his trade or chosen profession. Tom, the issue of being a director (as patronizing as you want it to be) is not relevant. He's not applying to be a director, I am sure he knows he can't be a director so most likely won't apply to be a director, but he's not prevented from kicking a football.

However, with regard to being found guilty of a crime, he was. But with respect to his appeal, let me assure both of you, until you have sat in a courtroom on a jury and listen to the evidence that is presented, not what is reported in a couple of columns of a newspaper or a 1 minute blurb on the TV, you have no idea of all the evidence that was given.

However, AFTER the trial, when a decision has been arrived at, you can become aware of additional "information", which, if it had been presented at trial, may well have given a different perspective in the decision making process for those on the jury. Of course, both of you recall OJ Simpson was found innocent by a jury of his peers in a criminal trial, and then found guilty in a civil action, go figure. Jury's make decisions on the evidence they hear, not ALL the evidence available to the various legal teams. Have either of you ever sat on a jury I wonder...?

And exactly who are these wonderful do-gooder's, so concerned with Mr. Evans ability to find gainful employment, so concerned for societies well being and "our" safety from harm, they feel the need to make death threats (as in taking a life) and rape threats against those looking to hire him. If Mr. Evans is so despicable, what does that make those people who want to take someone's life....?

TomMc
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by TomMc » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:33 pm

This was the patronising gubbins, not what you referred to.
davei wrote:And in case you are unaware of this, many people who come out of the slammer after serving time for a variety of offences, also apply for jobs back in their selected trade or, in some cases, outside their trade.

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ARNU
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by ARNU » Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:35 pm

davei wrote:To be clear to both child like Tom and Arnu, all I am debating here is whether he has the right to continue in his trade or chosen profession. Tom, the issue of being a director (as patronizing as you want it to be) is not relevant. He's not applying to be a director, I am sure he knows he can't be a director so most likely won't apply to be a director, but he's not prevented from kicking a football.

However, with regard to being found guilty of a crime, he was. But with respect to his appeal, let me assure both of you, until you have sat in a courtroom on a jury and listen to the evidence that is presented, not what is reported in a couple of columns of a newspaper or a 1 minute blurb on the TV, you have no idea of all the evidence that was given.

However, AFTER the trial, when a decision has been arrived at, you can become aware of additional "information", which, if it had been presented at trial, may well have given a different perspective in the decision making process for those on the jury. Of course, both of you recall OJ Simpson was found innocent by a jury of his peers in a criminal trial, and then found guilty in a civil action, go figure. Jury's make decisions on the evidence they hear, not ALL the evidence available to the various legal teams. Have either of you ever sat on a jury I wonder...?

And exactly who are these wonderful do-gooder's, so concerned with Mr. Evans ability to find gainful employment, so concerned for societies well being and "our" safety from harm, they feel the need to make death threats (as in taking a life) and rape threats against those looking to hire him. If Mr. Evans is so despicable, what does that make those people who want to take someone's life....?
Been on Jury service twice and convicted a rapist,aquitted another guy accused of but clearly not a rapist and convicted a murderer.I know how it works.All the evidence in my 3 cases was meticulous and left no room for any doubt.2 cases went 12-0 in favour of guilty the other 12-0 in favour of not guilty.I genuinely feel sorry for anyone falsely accused,must be horrible.Also,whilst I don't care for rapists,drunk drivers and most murderers I have never once condoned or encouraged anyone to make vile threats to his sympathisers(I don't actually believe this has even happened by the way).Easiest(And silliest) thing in the world to do is make threats online,rarely do twats on the internet carry them out(You'd have to be a twat to make a documented threat on line then go carry it out wouldn't you ?)
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Paul from Barking
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by Paul from Barking » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:40 pm

Adding my 10 pence worth:

I personally think that Evans is a grade A creep about whom I would be mortified were either of my sisters to draw up with him.

At best he is a slimeball who treated his then existing GF with contempt and a total lack of respect Even if there were absolutely no doubt whatsoever about the consent (or lack of it) issue.

But WAS it rape?

Absolutely, if he turned up there and she never at any point knew there'll be another bloke along later - and we'll have a 3-some AND then IF she was effectively asleep through alcohol THEN, he is guilty.

However, did she consent to a 3-some with the other bloke who sent the text "I have a bird"? I only know what I know from the press and what I have read, and seeing as I am only absolutely certain he is a real grade A shitbag but not about the consent to the mate earlier then borderlione, borderline, borderline NOT GUILTY by the skin on a gnat's bollocks - the benefit of the doubt.

Evans certainly is a poor specimen, but calling him a rapist for being a stuck up pompous, selfish, indolent, indulgent cretin at the end of the day isn't right. And although he is a grade A scumbag, I consider we collectively have a responsibility to do what's right even though he truly is an odious bucket of effluent.

As for the "victim".... No, ladies - I am NOT saying that have a drink and you can be anybody's (and that they will be beyond punishment) but you have to take some responsibility for yourself and not drink to the point where something like this happens; guilty or not do you want to wake up having been shegged by some scumball like this and then have 2nd thoughts over whether you actually did or not - OR WORSE, get found dead in a ditch?

IMV Evans has paid enough. I think that ugly mob rule about Evans' inclusion has spoken but cannot be allowed to win out here. He has the message and continuously hounding him everywhere is concerning. After all which of us has never done anything we regret or wish hadn't happened? I also - more importanly - think that most footballers do have the message about their sexual proclivities - though I wonder whether this has yet reached the premier league where there is an allegation in some parts about 27 year olds thinking 15 year olds are fair game - again where they have a wife / girlfriend already at home.

rechitski kinzhal
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by rechitski kinzhal » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:05 pm

Any of the original posters care to re-think their attitudes given that this innocent man has lost his career, reputation and millions of pounds because of some ill-thought out police crusade?
Yes, he has been shown to be a bit of a sleaze ball - how many other professional footballers have been shown to be the same?
I only went on about this case because it was clear to me from what I read that this was "questionable" from the start, yet some parts of society seemed to want him to hang.
Now the poor fellow is too far down the line to resurrect a career. And let us also not forget the poor girl in this - yes, she also is a sleaze ball, but she never wanted any of it, and she never cried rape. The police have a lot to answer on this one ...... yet again.

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Mike the Dagger
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by Mike the Dagger » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:15 pm

rechitski kinzhal wrote:Any of the original posters care to re-think their attitudes given that this innocent man has lost his career, reputation and millions of pounds because of some ill-thought out police crusade?
Yes, he has been shown to be a bit of a sleaze ball - how many other professional footballers have been shown to be the same?
I only went on about this case because it was clear to me from what I read that this was "questionable" from the start, yet some parts of society seemed to want him to hang.
Now the poor fellow is too far down the line to resurrect a career. And let us also not forget the poor girl in this - yes, she also is a sleaze ball, but she never wanted any of it, and she never cried rape. The police have a lot to answer on this one ...... yet again.
So he's not a rapist, just a total scumbag. That's OK then.

Gone from being 0.1% over the line....

- he made his way late at night to a hotel (after 4am), blagged his way to getting the night porter to let him into the room (which he had booked and paid for in McDonald's name) and had his mates sloppy seconds with a drunken girl he had never met before who was in no fit state to consent to sex

to 0.1% under it...

- he made his way late at night to a hotel (after 4am), blagged his way to getting the night porter to let him into the room (which he had booked and paid for in McDonald's name) and had his mates sloppy seconds with a drunken girl he had never met before who consented to sex and later changed her mind

Chigwellian
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Re: Ched Evans and Oldham Athletic

Post by Chigwellian » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:56 pm

did she even know there was another guy in her room (Ched Evans)

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