ZAV IS BACK

[ARNU]

Well when you lot(some of you at least) next go on about some player leaving us in the shit or being dis-loyal or in fact any other player playing for other clubs doing something similar then maybe in the back of your mind you'll have my voice telling you to ****** off you hypocrite.In this very thread you've got Nick slagging down Hoyte yet some how that's different,Hoytes a bad man yet Hines is a saint. No it aint. 2 mercenaries made 2 different decisions that's all.The more sensible of you out there will see that my attack is on footballers and football rather than any individual.Zavon Hines has a duty to his family and himself way before D&R or us.But lets not cover it all up with quaint little stories about him choosing us because he loves us,or him being a dagger thru and thru.I rather imagine he chose us cos we will pay his mortgage while he's crocked for another 6 months and will be off like a shot to the highest bidder asap after that.Once we all accept there is no loyalty in football at least from the players then maybe we'd all be a bit more comfortable with it all.The only loyalty I see in football is from the fans that travels far and wide in rain and shine no matter how crap their team is.A loyalty even I think is misguided and I've done it myself.

Now just to play devils advocate and as I love your passion and postings all tho I do not entirely agree with them all.

Have Zav Hines and Gavin Hoyte not just shown the same loyalty we have shown to Chris Lewington, Jordan Seabright, Femi, Affi Oberfemi, Chris Dickson and a host of other Players during this period.

Always a pleasure to discuss with you sussex.As always well worded thought out points and no hint of anger or violence in your tone.

Maybe loyalty is the wrong word.Im struggling to find another though.Football itself is mercenary so its no surprise really the players are the same.If a player isn't good enough is it dis loyal to let them go ? if there is a better offer for a player somewhere else should we block it ? Both answers No in my opinion.Should we mollycoddle players ? NO again! Just don't like the bullshit some spout about loyalty.It don't exist in football.If Burnett ****** up we should get rid,if he does well he'll be off to the highest bidder.Thats how it works.Can we please just cut the crap about loyalty and the players cliché lines about wanting to be a dagger once and for all.How Zav and Hoyte conduct their business maybe leaves a lot to be desired but the club playing along with it is just as bad.

Lewy left us I think,feel sorry for Jordan he was alright,Femi was a character but Wayne obviously didn't like him and it showed.I think he'll do ok at York.Affi,I liked him but there were again problems with the manager and him I think,Dicko...sorry but he wasn't good enough,I think we honoured his contract though.

Although Waynes biggest fan(well I was),It hasn't escaped me that he has a rather nasty way about him at times.This shone thru at the Wycombe game last season.Im not surprised after that we struggled and quite a few players have jumped ship/lost interest.I like change its healthy most of the time but changing into a club just like all the rest concerns me most of all.Buckling to agents whims,giving 3rd or 4th chances to players that have behaved like total c***s in their private lives just because they might be able to kick a ball disgusts me.I wish I could show you my recent correspondence with the club.Some of you would go quiet very quickly.They don't get it either,little wonder its now less than £8 to go watch.Another thing deemed impossible just a season or 2 ago I might add.Where are you now all those telling me £10 entrance fees were impossible ay ??

[Crushed Dreams]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 58524.html

[ARNU]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 58524.html

Nice piece.Hope he has a good debut and scores.

[USADAGGER nick]

Arnu, I think the main difference between zavon and Hoyte is that during this whole time whole they were out of contract, Zavs seems to have kept the manager in the loop the whole time, while Gavin has not. I think that is the problem that Nick, and some others, has. Do I think Gavin is in the wrong? Not necessarily, but the actions of not even returning a phone call to say your not interested? That burned a bridge that could start a wildfire if other managers phone wayne for an assessment of him.

[Lcbdagger]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 58524.html

Nice piece.Hope he has a good debut and scores.

Hope he kicks is off with a victory today. Decent looking squad to begin the season listening to the starting eleven being read out at the ground

[AVincelotFlyingLeap]

Spoke to Steve during the game - he insisted it was a good deal for us. I reckon what we've done is get him on a poor wage with a big appearance fee etc, so he's not on much while he's not playing but when he comes back he'll be one of our top earners. Steve seemed very sure that we'd done well to get the deal as it was

[SUSSEX DAGGER]

Would ask all posters to kindly respect Arnu opinion over this matter as I know a good number of you personally and you are all better then having to result to petty insults to support your views.

In an ideal world Arnu has a point but in reality it is only the supporters the Club can rely on for loyalty. For what I saw Saturday I firmly believe that the loyalty we all show by turning out week after week is again about to be tested. Hopefully in time the Players Wayne has recruited will click but Saturday I left feeling we had a team full of strangers just thrown together.

As for Zav I know one Club offered him a deal higher then us and as the previous poster touched upon that the deal is performance related. Let's. Just celebrate the fact that with Rhys and Zav we have two players that are only going to strengthen us because he'll we are going to need them looking at Saturdays shambolic
display.

Hopefully in time ( even Mr Moyes got a bit of that ) the team will gel and we will all see why Wayne has put faith in them. At the moment that is what I am clinging to because what I have seen so far leads me to believe that we are a weaker team them last season. Hopefully With Zav and Rhys and a couple of others still to come in all will come good in time.

One thing I think we can all safely rule out by the way Zav will not be taking any penaltys

[NickMurphy]

In this very thread you've got Nick slagging down Hoyte yet some how that's different,Hoytes a bad man yet Hines is a saint. .

It's different because Zav had the decency from what I'm aware to keep us informed throughout, whereas it appears to me Hoyte didn't. Don't over-exaggerate it.

[ARNU]

In this very thread you've got Nick slagging down Hoyte yet some how that's different,Hoytes a bad man yet Hines is a saint. .

It's different because Zav had the decency from what I'm aware to keep us informed throughout, whereas it appears to me Hoyte didn't. Don't over-exaggerate it.

Why did Hoyte,who was out of contract have to do anything ? If we wanted him that much surely we should have extended his contract prior to it expiring.Whilst I agree with you too an extent,I've exaggerated nothing,just caught you being slightly hypocritical.He'd obviously had enough,weve bought in 2 replacements and Hoytes now at the dole office.I cant help thinking Wayne lost the dressing room that day v Wycombe.We even lost players who were not really going anywhere since then.I would encourage the club to extend contracts if they want to keep players,not let them stew in the worry of being unemployed over the summer.We'd all seek other employment wouldn't we ?

[Diggerthedog]

In this very thread you've got Nick slagging down Hoyte yet some how that's different,Hoytes a bad man yet Hines is a saint. .

It's different because Zav had the decency from what I'm aware to keep us informed throughout, whereas it appears to me Hoyte didn't. Don't over-exaggerate it.

Why did Hoyte,who was out of contract have to do anything ? If we wanted him that much surely we should have extended his contract prior to it expiring.Whilst I agree with you too an extent,I've exaggerated nothing,just caught you being slightly hypocritical.He'd obviously had enough,weve bought in 2 replacements and Hoytes now at the dole office.I cant help thinking Wayne lost the dressing room that day v Wycombe.We even lost players who were not really going anywhere since then.I would encourage the club to extend contracts if they want to keep players,not let them stew in the worry of being unemployed over the summer.We'd all seek other employment wouldn't we ?

Hoyte was told he would be offered a contract back in January when the summer came, but lets not let that get in the way of your pig ignorence digs.

[matt_drfc]

In this very thread you've got Nick slagging down Hoyte yet some how that's different,Hoytes a bad man yet Hines is a saint. .

It's different because Zav had the decency from what I'm aware to keep us informed throughout, whereas it appears to me Hoyte didn't. Don't over-exaggerate it.

Why did Hoyte,who was out of contract have to do anything ? If we wanted him that much surely we should have extended his contract prior to it expiring.Whilst I agree with you too an extent,I've exaggerated nothing,just caught you being slightly hypocritical.He'd obviously had enough,weve bought in 2 replacements and Hoytes now at the dole office.I cant help thinking Wayne lost the dressing room that day v Wycombe.We even lost players who were not really going anywhere since then.I would encourage the club to extend contracts if they want to keep players,not let them stew in the worry of being unemployed over the summer.We'd all seek other employment wouldn't we ?

Right... We told him at the start of the year that we would be offering him a deal come the summer.. Season finished, we spoke to him about a new deal and he said speak to my agent before jetting off to play for T&T, so we put it in writing to him/his agent etc.. But there was no response.. So we continued to try and contact him/his agent but nothing. So we signed Batt & Partridge as it would have seemed at the time that he didn't want to extend his contract. He phoned Darren Currie in late June asking when the players are back in training, to be told we had signed new players, he thought his agent was sorting everything, clearly not..

[ARNU]

Hoyte was told he would be offered a contract back in January when the summer came, but lets not let that get in the way of your pig ignorence digs.

Bit strong reaction over not much really.You saying just cos something gets spoken about you'd take that as gospel then ? Actions speak louder than words.I've already said I don't really admire Hoytes way of doing business but if you think the clubs way is in anyway more professional Id be amazed.Look at this latest Droige episode.There is no way if you are in serious business you'd conduct your affairs on a nod,a wink and just a handshake.Unless you are a fool of course.

[Adrian]

It's different because Zav had the decency from what I'm aware to keep us informed throughout, whereas it appears to me Hoyte didn't. Don't over-exaggerate it.

Why did Hoyte,who was out of contract have to do anything ? If we wanted him that much surely we should have extended his contract prior to it expiring.Whilst I agree with you too an extent,I've exaggerated nothing,just caught you being slightly hypocritical.He'd obviously had enough,weve bought in 2 replacements and Hoytes now at the dole office.I cant help thinking Wayne lost the dressing room that day v Wycombe.We even lost players who were not really going anywhere since then.I would encourage the club to extend contracts if they want to keep players,not let them stew in the worry of being unemployed over the summer.We'd all seek other employment wouldn't we ?

Right... We told him at the start of the year that we would be offering him a deal come the summer.. Season finished, we spoke to him about a new deal and he said speak to my agent before jetting off to play for T&T, so we put it in writing to him/his agent etc.. But there was no response.. So we continued to try and contact him/his agent but nothing. So we signed Batt & Partridge as it would have seemed at the time that he didn't want to extend his contract. He phoned Darren Currie in late June asking when the players are back in training, to be told we had signed new players, he thought his agent was sorting everything, clearly not..

A few things stand out from that to me.
Why tell him he'd be offered something at the end of the season and not just offer it to him in January? Surely it would be better to get players signed up rather than risk the moving on if we wanted to keep them.

It seems a lot of the fault lies with Hoytes agent rather than Hoyte himself, so to me the slating of Hoyte is at best misplaced.

Why did Hoyte call ask about training? Had he not been told his offer was withdrawn? Or was he under the impression perhaps that there wasn't a big rush to resign?

[Mike the Dagger]

"he said speak to my agent" is pretty clear. if the agent doesn't then follow up then, yes its down to the agent.

But....

Having worked on a contract basis in the IT industry, if you are out of contract, whatever the promises forthcoming, you are effectively out of work. I think maybe you should get a bit proactive and make a few calls yourself at that point in time, both to the agent and prospective employer.

Dopey, but it happens.

[SUSSEX DAGGER]

Now I may be wrong but I would guess any new Contract would have improved terms and are payable immediately. Probably the budget did not allow this and that is why it was held over.

As you say the Agent appears the villain here and we have lost a decent right back as a result,something that was painfully obvious last Saturday afternoon.