Time for a change

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Mike the Dagger
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Mike the Dagger » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:02 pm

DI Mike Dashwood wrote:Sussex is spot on with what he says about Orient and the League. This is a very average league and Orient are a poor poor side, yet we have not scored against them in 270 minutes!!! That is very very poor. After 15 minutes yesterday we didn't look like scoring again.

I do feel calling for Stilly to go is a bit premature, and I suspect the OP was looking for some debate with a thought provoking message, but may be wrong. However, this season is a very frustrating one.

We won 4 games in row and then put in two abysmal league performances (I can't comment on Hereford as was not there). Yesterday was utterly appalling in my view.

While I don't think Stilly should go (on his or the Club's wishes) he should be accountable which I don't think is always the case, and on two issues we appear to have an ongoing problem. Boxing Day and Cup Runs.

These stats may not be 100% correct (will put that out there before the pedantic police jump in) but I believe we are 6 Boxing Day defeats in a row (three were under Wayne) and only 3 wins in 15 years on Boxing Day since Stilly came back in 2003?? In this time we have been at different levels and playing opposition at various places in League, so it can't be a coincidence?? Not only is the record poor, the performances have often been dreadful (yesterday, Braintree last year, Cambridge in 2015). Why is this?? Poor diet, poor preparation, training schedules?? I don't if they are, but I would hope the Board/Committee raise this with the football management team.

Same with cup runs. Out of the Trophy two years in a row to lower league oppo. Out of the Cup this Year against a poor Orient side, and last year to a team in the division below. 6 losses from 6 in the League cup under stilly. Out of Trophy last time we played in it before promotion to Redditch!!! In most of these games Stilly has put out his best side (quite rightly so) and yet we have come up short.

There are often debates on here about attendances and how we can improve them, but nobody mentions these two things above. A lot of people attend with family and friends on Boxing Day who are not regulars, but they are not going to come back if they watch the dross that has been served up on recent Boxing Days. And cup runs have always picked up casual supporters and first timers who may come back again. I imagine many on here started watching the club during one of Gary Hill's cup runs??

Anyway, got all that of me chest. Enjoy your turkey sarnies and see you all at Gravesend on Saturday. Lets hope there is an improvement then!!!
Spot on.

Our last win on Boxing Day was 2011, 3-0 v Barnet and we always seem to struggle. I travelled expecting the worst TBH and wasn't disappointed to be disappointed if you get what I mean.

The league remains very close and another decent run like the 4 wins in a row we had before having virtually no football in December will have us back up there again. It is no time to be panicing and doing something silly.

Finally, I haven't done a lot of away trips in the last couple of years, but we do seem to have picked up more than our fair share of total idiots recently. I managed to persuade the wife to come along yesterday and she was amazed by some of the goings on.

The guy who was yelling abuse towards the end at our team and the home fans in turn including bellowing "you have ruined my ******** Christmas, you *****" at the team he allegedly supports must have escaped from a care home for the day. Please get some perspective people.

RM1Dagger
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Re: Time for a change

Post by RM1Dagger » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:13 pm

Maybe you were standing behind me Mike as there was a lady (with her husband presumably) who seemed a bit shocked now and then by some of the things said! And I agree there was some really idiotic stuff said..

Daggyjack
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Daggyjack » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:14 pm

DI Mike Dashwood wrote:Sussex is spot on with what he says about Orient and the League. This is a very average league and Orient are a poor poor side, yet we have not scored against them in 270 minutes!!! That is very very poor. After 15 minutes yesterday we didn't look like scoring again.

I do feel calling for Stilly to go is a bit premature, and I suspect the OP was looking for some debate with a thought provoking message, but may be wrong. However, this season is a very frustrating one.

We won 4 games in row and then put in two abysmal league performances (I can't comment on Hereford as was not there). Yesterday was utterly appalling in my view.

While I don't think Stilly should go (on his or the Club's wishes) he should be accountable which I don't think is always the case, and on two issues we appear to have an ongoing problem. Boxing Day and Cup Runs.

These stats may not be 100% correct (will put that out there before the pedantic police jump in) but I believe we are 6 Boxing Day defeats in a row (three were under Wayne) and only 3 wins in 15 years on Boxing Day since Stilly came back in 2003?? In this time we have been at different levels and playing opposition at various places in League, so it can't be a coincidence?? Not only is the record poor, the performances have often been dreadful (yesterday, Braintree last year, Cambridge in 2015). Why is this?? Poor diet, poor preparation, training schedules?? I don't if they are, but I would hope the Board/Committee raise this with the football management team.

Same with cup runs. Out of the Trophy two years in a row to lower league oppo. Out of the Cup this Year against a poor Orient side, and last year to a team in the division below. 6 losses from 6 in the League cup under stilly. Out of Trophy last time we played in it before promotion to Redditch!!! In most of these games Stilly has put out his best side (quite rightly so) and yet we have come up short.

There are often debates on here about attendances and how we can improve them, but nobody mentions these two things above. A lot of people attend with family and friends on Boxing Day who are not regulars, but they are not going to come back if they watch the dross that has been served up on recent Boxing Days. And cup runs have always picked up casual supporters and first timers who may come back again. I imagine many on here started watching the club during one of Gary Hill's cup runs??

Anyway, got all that of me chest. Enjoy your turkey sarnies and see you all at Gravesend on Saturday. Lets hope there is an improvement then!!!
Spot on Mike.

Yes, my question was to those who have managed to see far more games than I have and I was wondering what your thoughts were of a team that can appear to go on a good run, then be totally bereft of ideas as they have been in recent weeks.

Are the football management side of the team accountable to anyone or are the board happy with an in and out team who appear to be pushing for the play-offs?

At Hereford, the side was awful (barring Ling, Whiteley and Ferrier in my opinion) - Hereford were no great shakes, rested 6 of the side that lost to Fleetwood, yet more than competed with us - that is unacceptable in my eyes.

I was surprised at how poor the midfield were and how slow Cheek was up front. Added to this, the National League defence was given the runaround by the Hereford front 3, including one guy who was their equivalent to Akinfenwa.

Whiteley is criticised on this thread and maybe rightly so but he shows so much quality, maybe he needs the support around him to flourish? Ferrier is also very impressive but a striker needs midfield support (as he can't always beat 5 players as he tries to) and he hasn't got it.

It will be interesting in January to see who JS brings in / ships out.

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Auntie Merge
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Auntie Merge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:36 pm

@Mike The Dagger
I’m pleased you mentioned the idiots.
Who are the idiots who keep using foul language in chants? You F Daggers is appalling and does not represent our family club.
And as for the chant they were singing at the Orient player.

As Mike Dashwood said, we always pick up family supporters on Boxing Day, there was lots of kids and wives in the crowd. I wonder what they all thought about those chants? This is something that I think the supporters club and the directors should try to work together on. It never used to be as bad as it is now.

DI Mike Dashwood
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Re: Time for a change

Post by DI Mike Dashwood » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:02 pm

Without going off topic, I found some of the things shouted out yesterday very idiotic (and unintentionally ironic at times).

Me and my mates used to do pretty much every game home and away, and I am not going to sit here and say I have never used bad language or at times got carried away, but one of our lads turned to me yesterday and said "Please tell me we never looked or sounded like that".

I was due to take my daughter to the game yesterday (she does home games and we went to Maidstone away) but as it was cold and her cousins had arrived for lunch she decided not to come. I was bit disappointed at first but glad in hindsight.

The thing is, a lot of the time the atmosphere these guys generate is very good, such as before the game and in the first half hour yesterday. As soon as we start struggling (which is frustrating) some of them come out with a load of nonsense.

The irony of these people singing "I saw your Mum on Jeremy Kyle" did make me chuckle though.

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Auntie Merge
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Auntie Merge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:16 pm

Maybe if there are quite a lot of us that feel this way about the innappropraite chants we can collectively help stamp it out. These people aren’t supporting the club.

Daggerthroughmyheart
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Daggerthroughmyheart » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:36 pm

Auntie Merge wrote:Maybe if there are quite a lot of us that feel this way about the innappropraite chants we can collectively help stamp it out. These people aren’t supporting the club.
I stand close to the people chanting this and will happily see if we can change the vocabulary. Is there a rule on swearing? Can the stewards do anything?

Whil we are at it can we get rid of the North Korea, Trumps daggers and other flags like soviet state of Dagenham. They don’t represent the club, and more importantely we know Glyn Hopkin don’t like them. Why on earth any single one of our supporters would want to upset the man who has given us so much I do not know.

The John Still quote flag yesterday was superb. going by the team performance yesterday even some of our players could learn from it.

dj johnny b
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Re: Time for a change

Post by dj johnny b » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:02 pm

"The Idiots". To tell the truth this is one of the reasons I didn't come down for the game from Suffolk yesterday (apart from the inevitability of seeing another BD defeat!).
If I were still involved with the club in any way I'd be bringing this up at the next meeting as a matter of importance/priority. Goodness knows what it's doing to our (family?)reputation amongst other clubs. It's really embarrassing and depressing.

BarkingRambo
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Re: Time for a change

Post by BarkingRambo » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:36 pm

I’m not so concerned at swearing as that happens at footie but I would echo that about some of the inappropriate chanting the other day. Not done an away this season so don’t know if this is regular at other games but felt there was no need for “sit down you paedophiles”. We have some good chants and a lot of them were on show at Orient, we are better than that.

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Auntie Merge
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Auntie Merge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:54 pm

I’m agreeing with everyone here. It’ good to see that so many of us feel the same.
I’m guessing if the club had not been distracted by the takeover then some of this could have been nipped in the bud.

What perhaps should happen now is for the club / supporters club to look to restoring our family club atmosphere asap and institute some sort of code of conduct.

TommyD&R
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Re: Time for a change

Post by TommyD&R » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:02 pm

The problem I have is the abuse of players who are clearly trying. Fair enough if someone wants to have a dog at a George Porter type play who clearly doesn’t give a shit, but constantly digging out players who have shown a lot this season get on my nerves. For example , some geezer who stands behind the goal doesn’t rate Cousins, and makes sure Cousins knows by criticising everything he does wrong. I’d find it hard to motivate myself if I’m hearing negative comments on every tiny error!

Phippo
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Phippo » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:15 pm

Auntie Merge wrote:@Mike The Dagger
I’m pleased you mentioned the idiots.
Who are the idiots who keep using foul language in chants? You F Daggers is appalling and does not represent our family club.
And as for the chant they were singing at the Orient player.

As Mike Dashwood said, we always pick up family supporters on Boxing Day, there was lots of kids and wives in the crowd. I wonder what they all thought about those chants? This is something that I think the supporters club and the directors should try to work together on. It never used to be as bad as it is now.

Spot on ! The swearing is all too prevalent (more so it seems at away games). Very off putting and so unnecessary!

Diggerthedog
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Diggerthedog » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:59 pm

There was a lot of unfamiliar faces at that games yesterday most likely on a day trip. When we go to far away places the support is fair and good. I don't think this game is representative of our current following. If your looking for a quiet afternoon I would suggest the library.

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Auntie Merge
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Auntie Merge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:58 pm

No one is saying the crowd has to be silent like a library. We want noise and chanting but it should be representative of our family club; not the highly vulgar chanting we all had to endure yesterday from a small minority. The majority need to regain control.

Daggernewbie
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Re: Time for a change

Post by Daggernewbie » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:28 am

There seem to be a few who are moaning about the swearing,songs and the abuse some of the players get.There is a simple answer don`t moan on here about it go and have a word with said supporters.

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