Tonights games.

[mickeyblue]

Arnu, it is not often I disagree with you, but this time I do.

Sad to say it, but WB was a poor manager and a poor judge of talent which transcended in to the players he picked up to play for this team. If a player is a crap player, no matter what you pay him, he is still going to be a crap player.

If someone has the ability to spot an up and coming talent, spotting a diamond in the rough so to speak (as JS can and has done) it can make a serious difference in pay expectations and what you eventually get for your money.

While not every player turns in to a gem, unfortunately, the majority of players WB has bought in to the team have just not been good enough, as our current position indicates and as well, the piss poor entertainment that has been dished up for the past 2 years. I am sure if our mutual friend Vindelot were still alive, he would echo those exact same sentiments.

Davei its not a problem for you to disagree with me.You do so with great politeness at all times and the payback for that is,i do hear what you say cos I read your whole post unlike those that snipe for the fun of it.And...I am more likely to change my opinion if a point is put well.

I was happy for Burnett to go when he finally did.I think his major failing was his temper and his control of it.I think he probably lost his rag too often with the players as well as us the fans and anyone who dared criticise,this led to pretty much all of the team that beat Wycombe that day leaving dodge as soon as they possibly could,especially after he publicly slagged them off (for winning)on the radio straight after and on the football league show.This action forced his own hand and built a rod for his own back as they say.He then had to replace Wilkinson,Medy,Abs,Doe,Bingham,Howell and others thru out his tenure.Despite this he did have,on paper and statistically 2 very good seasons.It was shit to watch a lot of the time but we'd take shit to watch and winning now wouldn't we ?Most managers don't last 2 seasons,Wayne did and his record in a hundred years time will look like he finished 9th and 14th and nobody will care how or what budget he had.Now the fact that Still came back and won 2 games on the trot(If you include Stevenage which I don't but that's another row)and put up a respectable fight at everton with these supposedly shit choices, to me,means they aint bad players,just need motivation.Now stills honeymoon is over well and truly its Still who is responsible.A bad workman blames his tools.In fairness to Johnny hoof,he has nothing but praise for his old mate stating its just "Fine margins" which I tend to believe.Bottom line is....I disagree its all WB's fault.He made many mistakes,who dosent in this league ? Still had much better budget and players at Luton,he took them up and now they think he was a c*** ! That's how unfair it is on Wayne I reckon.Remember he held Still's Luton to a draw.Will Still beat luton now...er No !!

Lastly...may I point you to the last 3(certainly the last 2) seasons Still was here...we were shite,we wanted him gone and we wanted someone else.Sound familiar

you speaking french?

the season he left was ok, if gayle stays we push for play off place, he left so did still and we stayed up under burnett with goal diff.

these players are shite full bloody stop, picking 2 young loanee centre backs as we have bugger all better sums it up for me.

doidge, a kid out of no bloody where, with chambers backing them up pfffft where the ****** the goals coming from

wingers that cant cross

midfield that cant open up a tin of beans let alone a defense

our best player been banned a few times for biting ffs

if we go down which looks nailed on tbh 90% blame goes to the people who voted for wayne's new contract at begining of season imo

[davei]

Arnu, in a previous thread I made the point that the board are the people really at fault as to why we are placed where we are at this time and in some sense you confirm that. Your comment that for 2 years the club endured poor performances from JS and that WB lasted 2 years is ample comment to say that neither should have happened.

While you are correct history will only show facts and figures, the underlying reality is that both men should have been gone long before things became as bad as they did. I gave WB the benefit of the doubt for a half full season when he took over but in all honesty, really questioned what he was doing by the following Christmas and by the end of the season knew the gig was (or should have been up). The fact the board gave him a 2 year extension after that, well, I'll say no more.

JS's seasons with Luton were a success based on where they were when he took over and where they were when he left (or they left him). His win ratio was something like 46% which by any standards is not shabby and the guy he replaced who had been there for little over a year as manager had a win percentage of a similar amount. So the question that begs to be asked is what does the Luton board have as a measure to gauge success. And I believe they are in or around the same position now as when JS left. And so are we for that matter.

As I said earlier if a player is crap, no amount of money will change that and neither will all the coaching in the world. In all honesty JS has inherited several players who are just that, crap and whether we go down or stay up, JS has a hell of a job in front of him. And in all seriousness cannot be faulted if we go down because that was where we were heading when he took over, of that, there can be no doubt.

And as I had also mentioned, of all the people that would have applied for this job had it been openly touted around the league, JS's resume by far would have outshone many of the other candidates at this level, especially touting a then current 46% win ratio behind him with Luton Town (I believe 5th overall since 1929 out of 22 managers all of whom it would appear had similar or lessor tenure with the club. Not too bad eh...?).

[ARNU]

Arnu, it is not often I disagree with you, but this time I do.

Sad to say it, but WB was a poor manager and a poor judge of talent which transcended in to the players he picked up to play for this team. If a player is a crap player, no matter what you pay him, he is still going to be a crap player.

If someone has the ability to spot an up and coming talent, spotting a diamond in the rough so to speak (as JS can and has done) it can make a serious difference in pay expectations and what you eventually get for your money.

While not every player turns in to a gem, unfortunately, the majority of players WB has bought in to the team have just not been good enough, as our current position indicates and as well, the piss poor entertainment that has been dished up for the past 2 years. I am sure if our mutual friend Vindelot were still alive, he would echo those exact same sentiments.

Davei its not a problem for you to disagree with me.You do so with great politeness at all times and the payback for that is,i do hear what you say cos I read your whole post unlike those that snipe for the fun of it.And...I am more likely to change my opinion if a point is put well.

I was happy for Burnett to go when he finally did.I think his major failing was his temper and his control of it.I think he probably lost his rag too often with the players as well as us the fans and anyone who dared criticise,this led to pretty much all of the team that beat Wycombe that day leaving dodge as soon as they possibly could,especially after he publicly slagged them off (for winning)on the radio straight after and on the football league show.This action forced his own hand and built a rod for his own back as they say.He then had to replace Wilkinson,Medy,Abs,Doe,Bingham,Howell and others thru out his tenure.Despite this he did have,on paper and statistically 2 very good seasons.It was shit to watch a lot of the time but we'd take shit to watch and winning now wouldn't we ?Most managers don't last 2 seasons,Wayne did and his record in a hundred years time will look like he finished 9th and 14th and nobody will care how or what budget he had.Now the fact that Still came back and won 2 games on the trot(If you include Stevenage which I don't but that's another row)and put up a respectable fight at everton with these supposedly shit choices, to me,means they aint bad players,just need motivation.Now stills honeymoon is over well and truly its Still who is responsible.A bad workman blames his tools.In fairness to Johnny hoof,he has nothing but praise for his old mate stating its just "Fine margins" which I tend to believe.Bottom line is....I disagree its all WB's fault.He made many mistakes,who dosent in this league ? Still had much better budget and players at Luton,he took them up and now they think he was a c*** ! That's how unfair it is on Wayne I reckon.Remember he held Still's Luton to a draw.Will Still beat luton now...er No !!

Lastly...may I point you to the last 3(certainly the last 2) seasons Still was here...we were shite,we wanted him gone and we wanted someone else.Sound familiar

you speaking french?

the season he left was ok, if gayle stays we push for play off place, he left so did still and we stayed up under burnett with goal diff.

these players are shite full bloody stop, picking 2 young loanee centre backs as we have bugger all better sums it up for me.

doidge, a kid out of no bloody where, with chambers backing them up pfffft where the ****** the goals coming from

wingers that cant cross

midfield that cant open up a tin of beans let alone a defense

our best player been banned a few times for biting ffs

if we go down which looks nailed on tbh 90% blame goes to the people who voted for wayne's new contract at begining of season imo

Nobody likes the situation we're in,wouldnt want to be a player right now.Change of style again,fans on their case calling them shite.

Somebody has to come last,could it be that we are in our rightfull position ?23rd I think is our rating,so only just underachieving. 7 or 8 wins and we're out of the brown stuff.

[ARNU]

Arnu, in a previous thread I made the point that the board are the people really at fault as to why we are placed where we are at this time and in some sense you confirm that. Your comment that for 2 years the club endured poor performances from JS and that WB lasted 2 years is ample comment to say that neither should have happened.

While you are correct history will only show facts and figures, the underlying reality is that both men should have been gone long before things became as bad as they did. I gave WB the benefit of the doubt for a half full season when he took over but in all honesty, really questioned what he was doing by the following Christmas and by the end of the season knew the gig was (or should have been up). The fact the board gave him a 2 year extension after that, well, I'll say no more.

JS's seasons with Luton were a success based on where they were when he took over and where they were when he left (or they left him). His win ratio was something like 46% which by any standards is not shabby and the guy he replaced who had been there for little over a year as manager had a win percentage of a similar amount. So the question that begs to be asked is what does the Luton board have as a measure to gauge success. And I believe they are in or around the same position now as when JS left. And so are we for that matter.

As I said earlier if a player is crap, no amount of money will change that and neither will all the coaching in the world. In all honesty JS has inherited several players who are just that, crap and whether we go down or stay up, JS has a hell of a job in front of him. And in all seriousness cannot be faulted if we go down because that was where we were heading when he took over, of that, there can be no doubt.

And as I had also mentioned, of all the people that would have applied for this job had it been openly touted around the league, JS's resume by far would have outshone many of the other candidates at this level, especially touting a then current 46% win ratio behind him with Luton Town (I believe 5th overall since 1929 out of 22 managers all of whom it would appear had similar or lessor tenure with the club. Not too bad eh...?).

Given we are favourites every year to go down even the season after the 9th place finish I think that was certainly not the reward for being a shit manager or players.Make your mind up what you want,and you'll soon realise that Dagenham are never going to give you it.Its shit football and bumping along the bottom or shit football and being relegated that are the 2 only realistic choices.This sense of entitlement to Play offs at least each season is laughable on our money.A lot of you are not happy with 9th not happy with 14th and if wayne had had a couple more points and a few more goals we'd have been 8th that year.People prefer to imagine less points and 15th or whatever old shite that is LOL! Im only asking that people recognise he did ok before it went to shit. Im not knocking how hard this is for JS but he has proven before he too can turn out a shite season every now and again without any help from someone else.Again conveniently forgotten.

The football has been rank over there for 6 years now,perhaps if people attended when it mattered and put some money in the coffers we might have had a better chance.

7 wins is all we need.

[davei]

Arnu, I still have an issue with the "if this and if that" part of your argument. As a Greek philosopher once said "If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle"

I can remember times when this club had absolutely NO MONEY regularly played against teams that were far superior and better financed, but there was always an element of wanting to win. If the board tells the manager his objective is to finish 22nd (or better you would hope), while I understand the semantics, with that objective, the manager is not being given a license to fail but the team is. Finishing 22nd as a target means the team will lose more games than we win, that in my mind, is failure. And notwithstanding his own objective, if the manager cannot raise the team beyond that level on a consistent basis, he is a failure.

And while you may want to point out the finishes WB achieved, it would have been a lot nicer and his credibility as a manager would have been somewhat more enhanced if the team had not spent the entire 2 seasons of his tenure here achieving those objectives most of the season. Common sense dictates a team will play with more confidence if they are at a stable mid level position than continually being in the bottom 4 positions.

If you can justify WB having his team sit for the majority of his tenure here as manager in the bottom 4 placings in the division and suggest it was a success, you truly are a philosopher of some merit.

[ARNU]

Arnu, I still have an issue with the "if this and if that" part of your argument. As a Greek philosopher once said "If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle"

I can remember times when this club had absolutely NO MONEY regularly played against teams that were far superior and better financed, but there was always an element of wanting to win. If the board tells the manager his objective is to finish 22nd (or better you would hope), while I understand the semantics, with that objective, the manager is not being given a license to fail but the team is. Finishing 22nd as a target means the team will lose more games than we win, that in my mind, is failure. And notwithstanding his own objective, if the manager cannot raise the team beyond that level on a consistent basis, he is a failure.

And while you may want to point out the finishes WB achieved, it would have been a lot nicer and his credibility as a manager would have been somewhat more enhanced if the team had not spent the entire 2 seasons of his tenure here achieving those objectives most of the season. Common sense dictates a team will play with more confidence if they are at a stable mid level position than continually being in the bottom 4 positions.

If you can justify WB having his team sit for the majority of his tenure here as manager in the bottom 4 placings in the division and suggest it was a success, you truly are a philosopher of some merit.

He had to go.

I think this sudden expectation that we'll fight for promotion every year is a dream.Look at Portsmouth,spend a shit load more than us with far better income facilitires etc, and didn't wayne finish above them last season ? Still in this league now aren't they.We are bottom 6 material every year,its dull and whoever comes in will not consistently change it.Need money and lots of it.I said it before...at best we will bump along the bottom every season and fluke a decent finish once in a while...if we don't go down.I sort of want us to now.Might liven things up a bit especially if we hit the floor running in the conference.Staying up would be nice..but would it really ?

[Mike the Dagger]

I think this sudden expectation that we'll fight for promotion every year is a dream.Look at Portsmouth,spend a shit load more than us with far better income facilitires etc, and didn't wayne finish above them last season ? Still in this league now aren't they.We are bottom 6 material every year,its dull and whoever comes in will not consistently change it.Need money and lots of it.I said it before...at best we will bump along the bottom every season and fluke a decent finish once in a while...if we don't go down.I sort of want us to now.Might liven things up a bit especially if we hit the floor running in the conference.Staying up would be nice..but would it really ?

What expectation is this? It is totally made up by you and Sussex to suit your "Wayne was doing a great job" bollocks.

I agree that public statements from the board that survival as a FL club is all we require are unhelpful, but also understand that this is the ultimate goal, however, personally I come to watch the Daggers to be entertained, see players that give a damn, are willing to give it all for the collective cause. If they battle and have a go, but are beaten by a team that has better players because they have more money, so be it. But to see them roll over without giving it a go drives me up the wall.

We have not won at home for nearly 10 months now. In that time we have played against more than a few teams that we could and should have beaten.

A team that is motivated, has belief and a good tactical plan, is fit and willing to collectively battle for the cause can do miracles. See Leicester City at the moment or Dagenham & Redbridge in the play off year for examples.

[ARNU]

Im not disagreeing its shit,even worse now with hoofball but that's another matter.Point being..where is all this expectation coming from,what gives us the right to expect any more than bottom five year in year out ?Theres 23 other teams trying to do that.we are right down the pecking order financially and otherwise.22nd is an achievement and very boring to watch.We dont disagree.

[davei]

Arnu, I totally agree with Mike and as it happens your comments regarding Portsmouth are of some note considering they currently sit well, and I do mean well, above our current standing in the league and also appear to be well placed for a promotion push. I can handle a team that struggles to win if they struggle while playing well and provide entertainment, but not the reverse.

Oh, and one other point, after going through a series of managers in the last few years (clearly based on performance, as in losing more games than they won), their current manager started off his tenure with them with a 3-0 win over, er, Dagenham & Redbridge..............

[Adrian]

Im not disagreeing its shit,even worse now with hoofball but that's another matter.Point being..where is all this expectation coming from,what gives us the right to expect any more than bottom five year in year out ?Theres 23 other teams trying to do that.we are right down the pecking order financially and otherwise.22nd is an achievement and very boring to watch.We dont disagree.

The expectation is coming from one place. Your imagination.
It doesn't exist anywhere else other than that.

[Grimsweeper]

Bring back wayne.

Weep

Weep

[The Romford Dagger]

I think this sudden expectation that we'll fight for promotion every year is a dream.Look at Portsmouth,spend a shit load more than us with far better income facilitires etc, and didn't wayne finish above them last season ? Still in this league now aren't they.We are bottom 6 material every year,its dull and whoever comes in will not consistently change it.Need money and lots of it.I said it before...at best we will bump along the bottom every season and fluke a decent finish once in a while...if we don't go down.I sort of want us to now.Might liven things up a bit especially if we hit the floor running in the conference.Staying up would be nice..but would it really ?

What expectation is this? It is totally made up by you and Sussex to suit your "Wayne was doing a great job" bollocks.

I agree that public statements from the board that survival as a FL club is all we require are unhelpful, but also understand that this is the ultimate goal, however, personally I come to watch the Daggers to be entertained, see players that give a damn, are willing to give it all for the collective cause. If they battle and have a go, but are beaten by a team that has better players because they have more money, so be it. But to see them roll over without giving it a go drives me up the wall.

We have not won at home for nearly 10 months now. In that time we have played against more than a few teams that we could and should have beaten.

A team that is motivated, has belief and a good tactical plan, is fit and willing to collectively battle for the cause can do miracles. See Leicester City at the moment or Dagenham & Redbridge in the play off year for examples.

Couldn't agree more

[Pondfield Dagger]

tonight's results went in our favour... at least we have a game in hand....

yeovil 0 plymouth 0
york 1 northampton 2